Future of manuals poll: When will the last performance car where the manual is faster than the auto be produced?

General discussion about cars. Looking to buy a new car? Have a great driving story? Post it here!
Post Reply

When will the last production performance car get faster 0-60 times with a manual?

Model year 2020-2021
1
50%
Model year 2022-2023
1
50%
Model year 2024-2025
0
No votes
Model year 2026-2027
0
No votes
Model year 2028 or later
0
No votes
Never, there will always be at least one model, as long as manuals are sold
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 2

User avatar
blauenlanze
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:47 am
Cars: 2017 BMW M240i 6MT
Location: San Francisco/Los Angeles, CA

Future of manuals poll: When will the last performance car where the manual is faster than the auto be produced?

Post by blauenlanze » Thu May 02, 2019 3:13 am

Hello everyone! Trying to not make this sound too fatalistic, haha. Looking at another car now, and the landscape is a total sea change from a decade ago - an interesting sight to observe. I used to always extoll the virtues of getting your faster launches in and not losing power on acceleration, especially for the used sport-compact world. However, it's the complete opposite now - you get the manual for the experience first and foremost. As far as I can, see the last model year 2019 performance cars where manuals are still faster than autos in the 0-60 are:

Subaru Impreza WRX
Fiat 124
Mazda Miata
Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86 (+5hp, >1 second difference)

Any more that I missed? (There are a couple of manual-only trims too, Civic Si/Type R/GT350)

I attribute all of the above to "lackluster" 6AT or CVT transmissions, and only in the BRZ/86 case is the difference as huge as it used to be in the 1990s or 2000s (1 full second). I suppose "performance car" is a very vague term, but I'm not as super-interested if the 6MT Honda Fit is faster than the CVT Honda Fit to 60mph, or similar with the Toyota Yaris. Let's define them as cars in the upper quartile of acceleration time. And sold in the United States.

[Spoiler/my 2 cents]
I think it'll be in model year 2022-2023, as by 2024 the current generation of these cars will have ended and the next one will have no reason to pick up an 8 speed auto (or 10 speed). The Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS/Toyota 86 started in 2012, so it's unlikely to hang on past MY2022 and sales are already dropping. The current Miata started 2016, so it's likely to end in 2023, possibly a few more years. Mazda is mostly stuck with 6ATs, but I feel like in a year or two they'll start sticking in an 8AT and it may easily get into the Miata
2007 BMW M240i 6MT
2006 Honda S2000 6MT (old)
2001 Honda Prelude SH 5MT (old)
2000 Toyota Camry V6 (old) auto

User avatar
potownrob
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 7508
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:35 pm
Cars: '13 ES 350; '07 Altima
Location: Dutchess County

Re: Future of manuals poll: When will the last performance car where the manual is faster than the auto be produced?

Post by potownrob » Thu May 02, 2019 7:43 am

i think this will come sooner than later, and not so much for acceleration purposes as for mpg porpoises. you'll see more 8-10 speed autos and better CVTs. this doesn't mean they'll be more fun to drive though...
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 10926
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Future of manuals poll: When will the last performance car where the manual is faster than the auto be produced?

Post by Rope-Pusher » Thu May 02, 2019 1:12 pm

....Mom, Dad,....Are we there yet?

I'd think that any time the car is powerful enough to be traction limited, the shift times are going to be a significant portion of the acceleration times and an AT with 6 or more forward gears might have a performance edge. I think we're there already.

Go to AWD, or low-powered vehicles and the manual might retain some of an edge.

I could probably hire some former Amish drag racer to drive my vehicle for me and be faster at shifting than I am and maybe blow the doors off of them slushboxes,......but I wanna be the one having the fun! ...and rilly, I don't know that I've ever been timed in a drag race...I hardly ever end up in a head-to-head race from a traffic light even. I hardly matters if my Amish steed is slower than the AT version of the same vehicle - I'm involved in the process and grinnin' from 'ere-2-'ere.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1609
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2001 S10 2.2L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: Future of manuals poll: When will the last performance car where the manual is faster than the auto be produced?

Post by ClutchFork » Fri May 03, 2019 10:46 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:12 pm
I hardly matters if my Amish steed is slower than the AT version of the same vehicle - I'm involved in the process and grinnin' from 'ere-2-'ere.
Exactly! It's all about the fun. If I have to get from point A to point B I want to have fun doing it!
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...

Post Reply