Hyundai Sonata loses stick

[Squint]

i'm in korea right now
and there are lots and lots of Kia cars around, optima especially.
until like 5 years ago, it was all hyundai but i think kia is taking over lol
one thing i noticed in korean cars is that there is way too much chrome. makes cars look cheap.

What'ca doing on the other side of the planet? And yeah, chrome does make vehicles look cheap. A small amount here and there can be wonderful, but too much and it looks dumb...

[tankinbeans]

Altima is fine...

Looks like a baby current-gen Maxima. Not bad.

[tankinbeans]

i'm in korea right now
and there are lots and lots of Kia cars around, optima especially.
until like 5 years ago, it was all hyundai but i think kia is taking over lol
one thing i noticed in korean cars is that there is way too much chrome. makes cars look cheap.

Must be a KDM thing because I don't notice too many Korean cars that have an over-abundance of chrome. Then again, perhaps anything that's not completely insane, I'm looking at you Mr. Crown Vic on 22s with extra loud flourescent green, doesn't register in my eyes.

[DKaz]

Is anybody honestly saddened by this? Maybe if the Optima was losing the stick shift as well, which I hope it doesn't.

If Mazda does a 180 and decides not to equip the 2013 Skyactiv 6 with manual transmission, then bring out the tissues.

I heard Ford is deciding not to release the 2013 Fusion with manual in the USA, last I heard Canadian Fusions will still come standard with standard transmission with the base 2.5 and optional 1.6 EcoBoost. 2.0 EcoBoost will be auto only.

And VW Passat TDI, backseat like a limo, great fuel economy, and 6 speed manual.

[Squint]

Is anybody honestly saddened by this? Maybe if the Optima was losing the stick shift as well, which I hope it doesn't.

If Mazda does a 180 and decides not to equip the 2013 Skyactiv 6 with manual transmission, then bring out the tissues.

I heard Ford is deciding not to release the 2013 Fusion with manual in the USA, last I heard Canadian Fusions will still come standard with standard transmission with the base 2.5 and optional 1.6 EcoBoost. 2.0 EcoBoost will be auto only.

And VW Passat TDI, backseat like a limo, great fuel economy, and 6 speed manual.

Personally, I'm not really saddened. Never seriously looked at a Hyundai. But it's just sad in general as manuals are fading a bit in production, even if not that much in number of vehicles (someone posted an article about that recently.. I don't remember the post).

Also, is Ford really not having manual Fusion next year?

TDI Passat is pretty fantastical. I want to drive one and see how they are. A good diesel engine is a wonderful thing that will run forever.

[theholycow]

^Squint, a good diesel engine's longevity matters in a large commercial truck, not so much in a passenger car...the rest of the car will most likely be discarded before the engine whether it's gas or diesel. Anyway, modern diesels have as much expensive-to-repair peripheral technology as gas engines now (and much of it is the same stuff) so when sensors and computers start pissing you off/costing too much you'll discard it the same as a gas engine.

Same as I ask in oil change interval discussions: How many gas engines are wearing out? Almost none, since they go to the junkyard with the rest of the car long before they wear out. Well, the short-lived rest of the car is no different for diesel than gas.

Get the diesel for its fuel flexibility (biodiesel, or SVO/WVO conversion), fuel economy, and driving dynamics (hello torque).

Here's hoping the TDI-equipped Passat and Jetta SportWagen become popular.

Is anybody honestly saddened by this?

Yes, but I don't matter.

The Sonata is a decent sized, comfortable, unassuming, pleasant car at a good price with good fuel economy and reasonable enough performance, backed by Hyundai's reputation-defying warranty. Under certain [mainly financial] conditions it would be and has been near the top of my list. FWD would be its major deterrent for me (but that's par for the course). The clutch pedal was an important part of that ranking.

I don't matter because I probably won't be in the new-car market in the foreseeable future.

[Squint]

^Squint, a good diesel engine's longevity matters in a large commercial truck, not so much in a passenger car...the rest of the car will most likely be discarded before the engine whether it's gas or diesel. Anyway, modern diesels have as much expensive-to-repair peripheral technology as gas engines now (and much of it is the same stuff) so when sensors and computers start pissing you off/costing too much you'll discard it the same as a gas engine.

Same as I ask in oil change interval discussions: How many gas engines are wearing out? Almost none, since they go to the junkyard with the rest of the car long before they wear out. Well, the short-lived rest of the car is no different for diesel than gas.

Get the diesel for its fuel flexibility (biodiesel, or SVO/WVO conversion), fuel economy, and driving dynamics (hello torque).

Valid points. The motors are not wearing out before the rest of the car. I do like them for the economy and torque though.

[DKaz]

I agree, the Passat TDI engine is great, so long as the rest of the car around it holds up, mainly the electrical system. I want to see what numbers the Fusion's 1.6 EcoBoost and 2013 SkyActiv Mazda 6 achieve, even if it uses a bit more than the TDI, it'll be offset by higher diesel prices and the need to add AdBlue every 10,000 miles at $150 a pop.

Sorry, cancel what I said with the Fusion, you can get a Fusion SE (not a base S or the top of the line Titanium) with 1.6L EcoBoost with a 6 speed manual in the US of A. The SE can be specified to have almost all the features you get in the Titanium, minus the features that require an automatic transmission like "Help I'm too incompetent to parallel park my own vehicle!" That is very good news. Build one today: http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/2013/bu ... ispatch.do

As for the Sonata, I took a look at one when I was looking at the Elantra, I wasn't compelled. The Elantra already feels like a midsize car inside and the Sonata is much bigger outside without being much bigger inside, while wasting more gas. So really, I'm not sad. It's not like the Jetta which feels like a midsize car inside but step up to the Passat and you feel like you're in a limo.

[AHTOXA]

I have always wanted to own a diesel powered vehicle. I even thought about the Golf TDI when I was researching the Soul, but it was cost-prohibitive because the point was to save cash.

[Squint]

I have always wanted to own a diesel powered vehicle. I even thought about the Golf TDI when I was researching the Soul, but it was cost-prohibitive because the point was to save cash.

Yeah, the biggest downside of diesels seems to be the cost of buying one. The fuel difference, depending on where you live, can be close to nothing with the increased economy, but the price of the vehicle is not offset...

[DKaz]

Still, the price of a Passat TDI SE 6MT which is rated 31/43 MPG at $25,995 is not unreasonable when you compare the features you get in the base model vs. what you have to upgrade most other models to get the same features like automatic climate control. A 2013 Ford Fusion SE 6MT which will likely be rated at 28/37 MPG will start at $25,250 then another $1,000 for the Technlogy Package. In Canada a fully loaded Passat TDI Highline 6MT is a bit cheaper than a fully loaded Mazda 6 GT-I4 6MT, but the TDI has better gas mileage and gobs of torque.

I love my automatic climate control BTW.

The barely equipped Jetta TDI at $22,775 is less of a value compared to its compact competition.

[AHTOXA]

But I want to see a diesel in a small car. In UK, the Soul is available with a diesel motor. That's what I want.

[DKaz]

Look for Mazda to release SkyActiv-D vehicles, though at this point all I've heard was the Mazda CX-5 and 6. The 3 will probably come when its fully redesigned on a SkyActiv chassis.

[Squint]

But I want to see a diesel in a small car. In UK, the Soul is available with a diesel motor. That's what I want.

Same with the Fiesta. I could be close to doubling or doubling my fuel economy

[DKaz]

What numbers are you two getting?