Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by AHTOXA » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:55 pm

The Supra surprisingly doesn't do much for me, although I am a fan of the car from 20+ years ago. The pictures leave me with a lukewarm impression from the first few glances, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

The interior seems to be certainly uninspired. It just looks like the standard conservative Toyota interior, which, granted, was what the original Supra was anyway, so I suppose this wasn't unexpected.

But overall, there is something missing (aside from the manual) and I can't put my finger on it. It just doesn't evoke a hooligan daydream in me, that's all.

But, I'll give it more time and maybe it will grow on me. As it stands, I would take a ZL1 Camaro over it any day of the week, which also doesn't have the best interior, but it stirs my soul - did before I even drove it.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:37 am

AHTOXA wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:55 pm
The Supra surprisingly doesn't do much for me, although I am a fan of the car from 20+ years ago. The pictures leave me with a lukewarm impression from the first few glances, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

The interior seems to be certainly uninspired. It just looks like the standard conservative Toyota interior, which, granted, was what the original Supra was anyway, so I suppose this wasn't unexpected.

But overall, there is something missing (aside from the manual) and I can't put my finger on it. It just doesn't evoke a hooligan daydream in me, that's all.

But, I'll give it more time and maybe it will grow on me. As it stands, I would take a ZL1 Camaro over it any day of the week, which also doesn't have the best interior, but it stirs my soul - did before I even drove it.
the new supra to me seems to be overdoing it in the exterior looks department. if they took a design similar to the frs/brz/86 and worked from there (moar power and the underpinnings and other components to handle it, maybe a nicer interior closer to the one in the new supra), i think that might be more interesting. i always liked the brz/frs/86 design, but would've preferred it more as a comfy roadster (if that's the right word, not a convertible, more like a porsche cayman). as it is, i'd probably prefer a mustang or camaro to the supra. that bmw z4 though... :shock:
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:41 am

wannabe87 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:02 am
A call for Elkins WV just came across my screen.

It’s not too far from parsons!

And tony I skimmed your post, but I agree with a middle part. Where you said your 25-35 was more formative than the teens

I’ve done more growing up from 25-31 (I’m 31 now...)
haha eye've gotten calls from elkins. don't think the caller knew me though. drove through there on at least two of the three trips down there. stopped at hardees, gas station etc. cool little town. drove through with tony one time on the last trip (2011), but it was on the way back from our morgantown daytrip and tone-bone was more or less passed out... :cry:
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by watkins » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:44 am

potownrob wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:20 am
AHTOXA wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:56 pm
So I have been reflecting on the last 10 years of my life. So, let me say up front - this will be a reflective post made mostly of my rambling. Skip to TLDR at the end if so inclined.
you of all people deserve a full read, discertation paper, novel or brief article. this may sound cheesy, but it's been exhilerating reading about your experiences, moves, advancements, etc., over the years. having met you multiple times (not as many as watkins' mom), from the first time i met you, it felt like i had always known you, even though i barely know you.
Sounds like you have a Toneboner for him

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by IMBoring25 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:33 pm

potownrob wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:37 am
i always liked the brz/frs/86 design, but would've preferred it more as a comfy roadster (if that's the right word, not a convertible, more like a porsche cayman)
That is not the right word but it is an ironic choice of example. The Cayman is the coupe version of the Boxster. The second half of Boxster comes from roadster, which refers to its body style, roadster, a two-seat convertible. Once you have a hardtop you're probably stuck with "sports car" or "sports coupe."

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:42 am

IMBoring25 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:33 pm
potownrob wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:37 am
i always liked the brz/frs/86 design, but would've preferred it more as a comfy roadster (if that's the right word, not a convertible, more like a porsche cayman)
That is not the right word but it is an ironic choice of example. The Cayman is the coupe version of the Boxster. The second half of Boxster comes from roadster, which refers to its body style, roadster, a two-seat convertible. Once you have a hardtop you're probably stuck with "sports car" or "sports coupe."
yeah, wish it were more like the cayman (or even boxster). love the looks of the brz/frs/86, but my butt wants to be coddled. would probably have to cost a lot more to be that nice though, especially if it had an MR layout :shock: .
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:47 am

Hey, it was 4 degrees when I got up to take the vehicles for their weekly visit to the gas pumps at Costco. Gas was $1.799 (Minus 4% rebated at a later date). As I am typing this, the city snowplow has just come by and there is a little ridge of snow to shovel at the end of the driveway - we only had about 4" fall here. Even so, I think we're done complaining about our snowless winter now. 4" snowfall on a Saturday was just enough to remind us what a pain it can be without causing any serious hardship or even affecting any weekday commuters.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:31 pm

This is the last year for Detroit hosting an auto show in January. Wow, this one will really show why they made the change. The show opened to the public today and runs through next weekend. Sposta get some single-digit or even negative single digit temperatures during the run of the show. In 2020, the show will move to June, which should allow them to tie-in with outdoor activities and in general be more pleasant for show-goers.
Image
I went there on Thursday morning with business customers and we measured Amish shift patterns on 9 vehicles. It was nice to get in before the big crowds. I later found out that "Industry Days" tickets go for $110 a pop.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by ClutchFork » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:46 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:31 pm
This is the last year for Detroit hosting an auto show in January. Wow, this one will really show why they made the change. The show opened to the public today and runs through next weekend. Sposta get some single-digit or even negative single digit temperatures during the run of the show. In 2020, the show will move to June, which should allow them to tie-in with outdoor activities and in general be more pleasant for show-goers.
Probably sell more cars holding this event in summer when people don't have to wait 5 months for nice weather to roll around.

I won't go to the auto show because I get my belly full of modern styling just driving down the road. Obnoxious seems to be the styling cue for modern automotive design.

Nine vehicles with Amish shift patterns, but the Amish won't be fooled when the computer takes over the rpms if you suddenly depress the clutch at high rpm. Nor will the Amish be pleased with the Devilish hill holder. Why using such a vehicle is heresy! Likely to be kicked out of the community for that one. Oh, and I hope none of those nine are actually automatics in disguise.
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theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:15 pm

ClutchFork wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:46 pm
Rope-Pusher wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:31 pm
This is the last year for Detroit hosting an auto show in January. Wow, this one will really show why they made the change. The show opened to the public today and runs through next weekend. Sposta get some single-digit or even negative single digit temperatures during the run of the show. In 2020, the show will move to June, which should allow them to tie-in with outdoor activities and in general be more pleasant for show-goers.
Probably sell more cars holding this event in summer when people don't have to wait 5 months for nice weather to roll around.

I won't go to the auto show because I get my belly full of modern styling just driving down the road. Obnoxious seems to be the styling cue for modern automotive design.

Nine vehicles with Amish shift patterns, but the Amish won't be fooled when the computer takes over the rpms if you suddenly depress the clutch at high rpm. Nor will the Amish be pleased with the Devilish hill holder. Why using such a vehicle is heresy! Likely to be kicked out of the community for that one. Oh, and I hope none of those nine are actually automatics in disguise.
There were many "Posers" with Amish-looking shift knobs and shifter boots, but I can assure you, the ones we measured were beard-on-the-chin Amish, Menonites and Womenonites.
The other half of our group was measuring clutch pedal travel. I don't think I've ever seen a vehicle with a fake clutch pedal.
You can't really measure shift travels on Slushbox vehicles at an Auto Show, because they are all locked in Park.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by IMBoring25 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:17 am

You know, I wouldn't be thrilled with clutch-by-wire or shift-by-wire (for one thing, I've always appreciated a fully independent mechanical backup in the event the computer goes full HAL-9000, plus they probably wouldn't get the feel right), but I'm still a little disappointed that the shift to everything-by-wire and SMGs hasn't led to the realization that the difference between manual and automatic could suddenly be a footbox module, a shifter module, and commenting out a few lines of code. It could even be different driving modes of the same vehicle. The writing seems to be on the wall but increasing parts commonality and reducing certification burden and logistical footprint for offering the option could go a long way to keeping the "faith" alive a while longer.

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by ClutchFork » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:16 am

Rope-Pusher wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:15 pm
You can't really measure shift travels on Slushbox vehicles at an Auto Show, because they are all locked in Park.
Not isn't that odd. Automatics are set up to be locked into park but manuals don't have park. In either case the parking brake would work. But I guess since an automatic likely won't sit still on a slope if left in gear, they have to include park. I think many who drive automatics don't even know they have a parking brake, but with a manual you use it all the time until if it freezes up you free it and start using a stick of firewood.

Well I suppose the cars with stick shift are limited to Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Dart, and perhaps still the CJ Jeep. I can't think of others but they must be out there. Maybe still have a stick in Ford Focus, but i bet they dropped it from the Fusion by now. Does Dodge still have the Challenger, if so that should be available with a stick.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:25 pm

ClutchFork wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:16 am
Rope-Pusher wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:15 pm
You can't really measure shift travels on Slushbox vehicles at an Auto Show, because they are all locked in Park.
Not isn't that odd. Automatics are set up to be locked into park but manuals don't have park. In either case the parking brake would work. But I guess since an automatic likely won't sit still on a slope if left in gear, they have to include park. I think many who drive automatics don't even know they have a parking brake, but with a manual you use it all the time until if it freezes up you free it and start using a stick of firewood.

Well I suppose the cars with stick shift are limited to Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Dart, and perhaps still the CJ Jeep. I can't think of others but they must be out there. Maybe still have a stick in Ford Focus, but i bet they dropped it from the Fusion by now. Does Dodge still have the Challenger, if so that should be available with a stick.
Challenger is the only Amish Dodgem Car
Jeep still offers Amish Compass and the Wrangler

At the Auto Show, we measured Honda Civic Type R, Subaru WRX & BRZ, Hyundai Veloster, Hyundai Genesis G70, Kia Forte, VW Golf Type R & VW Golf GTI Rabbit Edition, & GM Chevrolet Camaro RS.

Usta was the Ford exhibit had lots of Amish cars, but with Mustang being the only car they plan to build going forward, they dropt showing Auto-Focus, Fiasco, Fruition & Faversham.

Back when I was a lad, there was a move afoot to require Amish shifters to be secured in Reverse before the ignition key could be removed. The legislation was rolled back and it never became a requirement, but I saw some cars at the Auto Show that had their shifters locked in Reverse. Seems that the automakers designed and released systems to meet the requirement and built some vehicles before cancelling the feature themselves.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:46 pm

ClutchFork wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:16 am
Rope-Pusher wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:15 pm
You can't really measure shift travels on Slushbox vehicles at an Auto Show, because they are all locked in Park.
Not isn't that odd. Automatics are set up to be locked into park but manuals don't have park. In either case the parking brake would work. But I guess since an automatic likely won't sit still on a slope if left in gear, they have to include park. I think many who drive automatics don't even know they have a parking brake, but with a manual you use it all the time until if it freezes up you free it and start using a stick of firewood.

Well I suppose the cars with stick shift are limited to Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Dart, and perhaps still the CJ Jeep. I can't think of others but they must be out there. Maybe still have a stick in Ford Focus, but i bet they dropped it from the Fusion by now. Does Dodge still have the Challenger, if so that should be available with a stick.
The Smart cars sold in the USA had automated manual transmissions and many people thought they shifted horribly.
Fiat markets some vehicles, like the CinqueCento, with automated manual transmissions, but not in the USA.

Automated Manual Transmissions typically take a long time to unclutch, shift to the next gear, and clutch back in - the vehicle is coasting the whole time this is going on. It has to do with a bunch of factors, but especially that it requires a lot of power be applied to the shift lever in order to upshift or downshift quickly. Most of these automated systems sacrifice power for cost and so they are only able to supply Work is Power X Time. They perform the amount of work required to synchronize the next gear, but hey do it with low power applied for a long time.

For someone not familiar with automatic transmissions, this might be ok - "Hey, it's shifting itself and I don't have to use my hand or my foot!", but for others it is a poor excuse for what they've come to expect from an automatic transmission.

With a DCT, what you have is two parallel power paths, each with its own clutch. While you are driving in one gear, the transmission can slowly apply power to the shift lever to synchromize the next gear you will be shifting into, but not yet clutch-out the current gear and clutch-in that next gear. The clutching part goes relatively quickly compared to the time required to synchronize the next gear, but the synchronizing occurs in the background, so you never notice the delay.........unless it guesses you are planning to shift from, lets say, 4th to 5th (Come on, all together now, "4th to 5th") but you see an opening in traffic and decide to step into the throttle and it hasn't pre-synchronized 3rd gear yet, so there will be some delay before the downshift occurs.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by watkins » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:53 pm

The dual clutch in the Dart and single clutch in the diesel ProMaster both suck(ed) for their own reasons, on the topic of automated manuals.

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