Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Read the FAQ and still not sure about something? Want to shift faster? Post here.
DashboardSaint
Junior Standardshifter
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:41 am
Cars: 2015 Mazda 3

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by DashboardSaint » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:11 pm

wannabe wrote: has it happened with him in the car? if so, does he have pointers on how to "fix" it, or get going better/faster?
No, it usually happens when I'm leaving work. I work in a small "city" area, so leaving work I get a lot of cars slowing down and stopping with no particular rhythm.

So today something similar but different happened. Twice today, I had a situation where I came to a stop but immediately kept going, but both times on a hill. Both times I stalled, and I'm usually pretty good at starting on a hill. I used first gear in both instances but I did not completely press down on the brake. So I'm wondering, if maybe by not fully pressing the brake, the hill assist did not kick in and therefore my usual method of getting going was just a little bit off? I seemed to stall before I had a chance to roll backwards, so I'm not certain exactly what I did wrong.

It's weird, but then again I don't know if it's something unique to the car of something I'm doing since this is my first stick shift. Thanks for all your help!

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by tankinbeans » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:22 pm

I think this happened to me today when I was mostly stopped, but felt fully stopped. I hadn't rev-matched into 1st and the car got very annoyed.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image

User avatar
Squint
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3390
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: KY

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by Squint » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:52 am

DashboardSaint wrote:So today something similar but different happened. Twice today, I had a situation where I came to a stop but immediately kept going, but both times on a hill. Both times I stalled, and I'm usually pretty good at starting on a hill. I used first gear in both instances but I did not completely press down on the brake. So I'm wondering, if maybe by not fully pressing the brake, the hill assist did not kick in and therefore my usual method of getting going was just a little bit off? I seemed to stall before I had a chance to roll backwards, so I'm not certain exactly what I did wrong.

It's weird, but then again I don't know if it's something unique to the car of something I'm doing since this is my first stick shift. Thanks for all your help!
In my experience in the Mazda, hill assist doesn't kick in until you are FULLY stopped on a hill for more than a moment. Some place like a stop sign where there is only a momentary pause, I usually don't have hill assist help. I don't know what the actual delay is, but there is some small delay.
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

For Pony!

DashboardSaint
Junior Standardshifter
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:41 am
Cars: 2015 Mazda 3

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by DashboardSaint » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:28 pm

tankinbeans wrote:I think this happened to me today when I was mostly stopped, but felt fully stopped. I hadn't rev-matched into 1st and the car got very annoyed.
I never really thought about "rev matching" into first from a stop (or "mostly" stop). I always just think "well I'm stopped so I must need first now".

Speaking of stopping/ rev matching, I always wonder if I'm clutching too soon when i slow to a stop. How slow can I go, or how low can I rev, before I stall?

IMBoring25
Moderator
Posts: 3334
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: OK, USA

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by IMBoring25 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:42 pm

The car will start not liking it below whatever RPM it spins when idling with no throttle.

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by tankinbeans » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:18 pm

The car will vibrate at low revs. Mine usually starts getting cross around 1200ish.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image

IMBoring25
Moderator
Posts: 3334
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: OK, USA

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by IMBoring25 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:57 pm

Even when not under load, braking to a stop? That seems odd.

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by tankinbeans » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:24 pm

IMBoring25 wrote:Even when not under load, braking to a stop? That seems odd.
Usually ride it down in 6th. Might be lower, but I don't really stare at the tach.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image

User avatar
Squint
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3390
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: KY

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by Squint » Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:06 am

DashboardSaint wrote:Speaking of stopping/ rev matching, I always wonder if I'm clutching too soon when i slow to a stop. How slow can I go, or how low can I rev, before I stall?
Like an automatic, a manual when in gear has an idle RPM that the engine won't like to go below. It's typically ~700-1000 for most cars, a little higher on cold days until the engine warms up. To test what it is, go to a parking lot (or a street with no cars) that's level and start going from stop. The engine RPM will reach a level that it will stay around if you don't touch the gas pedal (and a related MPH as well). That's the idle level for the car and you generally don't to force the vehicle to stay in a gear below the idle level. The car will vibrate a bit when the RPM are below the idle RPM, and then there is a point below the vibration level where it will stall.

Basically, in a perfect world with no other factors (traffic, road obstacles, etc...), while slowing down you would leave it in gear with no clutch pedal pushing until the idle speed, then take it out of gear and downshift or go to neutral while braking - which is another discussion in itself as people have preferences as to whether they slow down in neutral with foot on the brake, downshift through every gear (using brake or no, depending on circumstances), or in between the two.
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

For Pony!

SonicHKS
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 4:31 pm
Cars: 2012 Chevy Sonic Turbo
Location: GA

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by SonicHKS » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:17 pm

His problem sounds like engine braking. I know if I'm still rolling a little and select 1st as if to get moving from a stop, the car will slow down when I engage the gear. Unless you're starting from a dead stop it'll have this behavior. Its counter-intuitive because you expect 1st will get you going faster, but accelerating from like 1k RPM in 2nd would be faster. Its hard to explain but because of the shorter gearing 1st has more engine braking and more resistance and it requires more throttle to take it to higher RPM. If you're rolling and engage 1st you have to give it that kind of throttle or you'll have instant engine braking smack you in the face (or at least that's what it feels like). People bumpstart in 2nd or one of the higher gears instead of 1st because of this effect.

I just anticipate the guy turning and give more of a buffer between us, and roll in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. Its a good idea to know the lowest mph you can use in each gear, for my Sonic its 7 in 2nd, 17 in 3rd, 27 in 4th, 37 in 5th, 47 in 6th. Each one of those is the bare minimum RPM to get going in that gear, right around 1000-1400. So if someone turns in front of me I just back off them and keep it above 7 mph and roll in 2nd. Or 17 in 3rd, etc, I usually try to keep as much speed as possible so I don't waste gas accelerating again. I also downshift as I'm slowing down behind them, so I don't select 2nd as I'm passing them, I'm already in 2nd from coasting and waiting behind them. That's why learning to rev-match and double clutch is important, I always do so on downshifts and it enables me to select any gear at any time. A friend of mine has been driving stick about as long as I have and he doesn't believe in revmatching or anything.....and he's so slow and uncoordinated when he drives. Like he goes around corners in neutral. I'm always in the right gear before getting into corners, turning into parking lots, passing people turning in front of me, etc. Nothing like powering through a corner, and being in the right gear gives you more control over your line and weight balance and everything.

DashboardSaint
Junior Standardshifter
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:41 am
Cars: 2015 Mazda 3

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by DashboardSaint » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:27 pm

SonicHKS wrote:HER problem sounds like engine braking. I know if I'm still rolling a little and select 1st as if to get moving from a stop, the car will slow down when I engage the gear. Unless you're starting from a dead stop it'll have this behavior. Its counter-intuitive because you expect 1st will get you going faster, but accelerating from like 1k RPM in 2nd would be faster. Its hard to explain but because of the shorter gearing 1st has more engine braking and more resistance and it requires more throttle to take it to higher RPM. If you're rolling and engage 1st you have to give it that kind of throttle or you'll have instant engine braking smack you in the face (or at least that's what it feels like). People bumpstart in 2nd or one of the higher gears instead of 1st because of this effect.
This sounds like it may be the answer.

Just an update – I have been driving my husband’s Dodge Challenger for the past several weeks and I have not had the same issue. In fact, it’s easier to get the Dodge going from “just barely stopped” then from a dead stop. The opposite is true in the Mazda, where I was having this issue. My husband’s comment is that the Mazda has a shorter first gear, and I do notice I can go a lot further in the Dodge in first gear then in the Mazda, where I have to switch to second as soon as I get moving.

Also as a side note I was having trouble taking corners in the Mazda (not shifting quick enough and taking them in neutral) but rev-matching / down shifting is much easier in the Dodge.

I think I’m in love with the Dodge.

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11054
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by Rope-Pusher » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:57 pm

The Dodge comes with a feature to force a 1>4 upshift under certain throttle settings and upshift speeds.

I've heard from some people who never notice it, because they don't operate in that window, but others hate when it forces them to make that 1>4 upshift. I've heard that the window has been narrowed, to be less offensive / affect less people while still improving the fuel smileage on the EPA tests.

Does it bother you?
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by tankinbeans » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:49 pm

I'd have to kill that feature worth fire until it died from it. I commonly do 3>6 though.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image

User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 16021
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by theholycow » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:55 pm

GM is infamous for having that "feature" in Camaros and I think Corvettes. I wouldn't last a day before disabling it. I might not even make it home from buying the car.
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11054
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Slow to a stop, but then immediately keep going

Post by Rope-Pusher » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:08 pm

theholycow wrote:GM is infamous for having that "feature" in Camaros and I think Corvettes. I wouldn't last a day before disabling it. I might not even make it home from buying the car.
Depending on how you drive, you might not even notice it. On Challengers, the window of operation was narrowed so much that it doesn't occur when my friend drives his newer car.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

Post Reply