New Manual Driver - Launching Questions

[daleadbull]

Hello all,

I've been lurking on this forum for a few months now and Its been very helpful in my learning process. I have not seen this particular question answered in detail so I thought I'd start a thread.

Background first, I've been driving stick for about 8 months now. I own a 2012 VW Golf R and this is my first stick car, before I bought the car I had spent a whopping 3 hours in a manual car. Looking back, I'm pretty amazed I was even able to get the car home (1.5 hour drive from dealer). I'm now pretty comfortable with most of the basics. I can upshift pretty smoothly, although the 1-2 shift still gives me some trouble. I can rev match downshift pretty well and I can even heal-toe well on occasion.

Now on to my question, I can launch smoothly (although slowly) on level ground pretty well. I'm still not as consistent as I'd like to be but that will come with time I guess. On inclines it's a hit or miss, I don't stall anymore but not always smooth. In both these scenarios, I slowly release the clutch and pause at the engagement point a little, then add gas and release the rest of the way. So if I screw up I know what I'm doing wrong. My question is how do I launch when I'm trying to get off the line quickly? (My car is AWD BTW)

I'm not talking about hard launches, but just regular quick launches like you would in an automatic. I hate that I have a powerful car yet slushies beat me off the line a lot. Again I'm not talking about racing, just quickly getting the car moving. Please go into as much detail as possible.

I feel like once I perfect the launch, I would really start enjoying stick a lot more. I already love it tho, automatics are boring!

[Shadow]

The short answer-- higher revs and a quicker clutch engagement. In a nutshell, that's your answer.

Edit: Forgot to say: Welcome to the forum!

[Shadow]

Now that I've given you the short answer, allow me to go into more detail....

First of all, do you normally launch from idle? Do you ever rev the engine while launching? I'm not talking about really revving the hell out of the engine, but just enough to raise the RPM as you engage the clutch. BTW, I'm just trying to get an idea how you like to launch your car most of the time. For me, launching from idle is my normal technique, but I do rev it up sometimes too. It really depends on a few different factors. BTW, my car is also turbo AWD. You can really have a lot of fun launching a manual transmission car that is turbo AWD.

With AWD, traction isn't a concern. You can basically launch your car as quickly as you want without breaking the tires loose. That said, it's completely up to you how hard or how easy to want to launch. To get a good feel for a quick launch on your car, try this (maybe in an open parking lot instead of the street for the first time): Bring your RPMs to about 2000 and hold them there. Then engage your clutch quickly and add more throttle as the clutch starts to bite. Your car should jump off the line decently if you do it right. Of course you can experiment with your RPM and your clutch engagement until you find out what works best for you. Also keep in mind that you don't ever have to sit there with your RPMs held steady at any particular RPM. I was only saying that for illustration. In time, you'll be able to bring your RPMs up as you launch, in one smooth motion.

Another interesting variation that you can try is to do all the above, but with a bit of a slower clutch engagement. The idea is to slip the clutch just a little bit more as you are launching and then quickly release the clutch shortly after it starts to grab. The idea here is to build boost pressure before (or technically I should probably say "during") you launch. Since it's not possible to build boost pressure in neutral, you're basically slipping the clutch a bit to help get the turbo boost up immediately. Trust me, this is a way to get a really quick launch on an AWD turbo car without being abusive to the car.

Years ago, I had an AWD turbo car that I used to race at the track all the time. To get the best possible time, I'd bring the RPMs up to 6,000 and hold it there. Then I'd side-step the clutch (meaning I'd slide my foot off the side and let the clutch pedal spring back up) and mash the gas pedal to the floor. Of course this is brutal to the drivetrain, but holy crap did the car rocket off the line. And surprisingly, the car handled the abuse for a long time before anything broke. I'd never recommend that anyone drive a car that way, but I was young & dumb back then and didn't really care too much about breaking stuff. It was definitely a lot of fun!

[daleadbull]

Thanks Shadow. I normally launch from Idle or maybe a very slight amount of throttle. I'm just concerned about burning up my clutch, maybe I'm being paranoid.

Lets say you're launching from 2000 RPM like you said, do you still give the clutch pedal a slight pause at engagement (like you would if launching from idle) or do you just let it out smoothly all in one motion?

[Shadow]

Thanks Shadow. I normally launch from Idle or maybe a very slight amount of throttle. I'm just concerned about burning up my clutch, maybe I'm being paranoid.

Lets say you're launching from 2000 RPM like you said, do you still give the clutch pedal a slight pause at engagement (like you would if launching from idle) or do you just let it out smoothly all in one motion?

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating--- don't worry too much about your clutch. It's designed to slip. A faster launch will generally put a bit more wear on it, but it's really not a significant difference as long as you're not really abusing it. If you want a quick launch, there's really no free lunch....you either have to launch at a higher RPM and a quicker clutch engagement or you'll just have to launch normally and then stomp the gas pedal to get moving quickly.

As far as your question, you can do it either way. If you do pause at bit when lauching at high RPM, you should definite build boost pressure. You'll feel the extra kick as you fully engage the clutch. But you can also do one fluid motion without pausing at all. Just try it both ways and see how you like it. Another thing I should have mentioned---- since you have AWD, you have to make sure you don't bog the engine. What I mean by that is to avoid letting the clutch out too quickly at too low of an RPM. In other words, the traction that your AWD system will give you is much greater than a non-AWD vehicle. So if you basically dump your clutch at a too low RPM, the traction will cause the engine to bog down, which is no fun. That's why I suggested that you practice in a parking lot first. Get a feel for just how much throttle and how much clutch engagement your particular car requires for the speed you want to launch off the line. You can be mild or wild, it's completely up to you. The main thing is figuring out what works with your car and your driving technique.

[theholycow]

If you want a quick launch, there's really no free lunch....you either have to launch at a higher RPM and a quicker clutch engagement or you'll just have to launch normally and then stomp the gas pedal to get moving quickly.

Actually, sometimes there is a free lunch, and it's basically the second option you said. I find that often I can no-gas launch before it's my turn to go, idling forward just the way an impatient automatic driver does when forced to wait at a stop, and then I can do whatever I want with the accelerator pedal (including stomping it to the floor). That can alleviate even the most severe clutch paranoia while providing plenty of hard launch for most purposes, still giving you harder acceleration than a slushbox (due to the usually much shorter 1st in the manual vs. a measly few extra RPM from a slipping torque converter). It certainly won't compete with a high-RPM clutch sidestep, of course.

[Shadow]

Actually, sometimes there is a free lunch, and it's basically the second option you said. I find that often I can no-gas launch before it's my turn to go, idling forward just the way an impatient automatic driver does when forced to wait at a stop, and then I can do whatever I want with the accelerator pedal (including stomping it to the floor). That can alleviate even the most severe clutch paranoia while providing plenty of hard launch for most purposes, still giving you harder acceleration than a slushbox (due to the usually much shorter 1st in the manual vs. a measly few extra RPM from a slipping torque converter). It certainly won't compete with a high-RPM clutch sidestep, of course.

Sure, but that's not really a quick launch, that's more like quick acceleration after the launch. That said, it is a viable option and something that I've done on occasion. But really, if a quick launch is the mission, there really isn't any free lunch.

[theholycow]

Sure, but that's not really a quick launch, that's more like quick acceleration after the launch. That said, it is a viable option and something that I've done on occasion. But really, if a quick launch is the mission, there really isn't any free lunch.

As long as we're picking nits:

I suppose that depends on the car, but my car (and my previous car) does no-gas launches pretty quickly. It is not, however, a sudden unexpected launch. I suppose you could train your reflexes to do the high-RPM sidestep quickly in the event of a sudden unexpected launch need.

However, OP didn't ask for a quick launch or a sudden unexpected launch, he asked "how do I launch when I'm trying to get off the line quickly". Launch first, get off the line quickly later.

/nit-picking

[Shadow]

Nit-picking is fine...I have no problem with that.

Maybe it's my drag racing background, but when someone asks about launching a car quickly, I think of actually launching the car, meaning how to get the car initially moving quickly off the line. That's my definition of "launching" a car. Your definition may differ.

Reading the OP's words, I pictured in my head that he was at a red light with one or more cars beside him (you know, like a two- or three-lane road) and he wanted to be first out of the blocks. To do that, he needs to learn how to launch his car properly. Sure, he might be able to get away with cheating once in a while by trying your no-gas method and then stomping the accelerator. But to do that successfully, he'd have to time the light just right every time, and sometimes you just can't tell when the light is going to change. To consistently be the first car to pull away at a light, knowing how to launch a car quickly is paramount. And the fact that he happens to have an AWD car means that he can apply however much power he wants off the line and not worry about spinning the tires. With a proper launch that uses the capabilities of his car, there aren't too many cars out there that he couldn't easily jump out in front when the light turns green.

[theholycow]

I was picturing the same scenario. Works for me every time. Perhaps I have an uncanny ability to read traffic lights...

[Shadow]

I was picturing the same scenario. Works for me every time. Perhaps I have an uncanny ability to read traffic lights...

I like to "read" the traffic lights too, but there are just some situations when I don't know. For example, in a complex intersection where the oncoming lane(s) get a green light before I do because they have a green arrow for a left turn. There's no way to see when that light changes, which means I have no idea when my light is turning green. During night driving, I've learned that I can look for a reflection on the back of a road sign that often lets me know when that left turn light is changing from green to yellow to red. But during daylight hours, there's often no way to tell. Still though, learning the traffic signals is almost an art in itself and I find a lot of fun in anticipating light changes whenever possible.

[Squint]

Actually, sometimes there is a free lunch, and it's basically the second option you said. I find that often I can no-gas launch before it's my turn to go, idling forward just the way an impatient automatic driver does when forced to wait at a stop, and then I can do whatever I want with the accelerator pedal (including stomping it to the floor). That can alleviate even the most severe clutch paranoia while providing plenty of hard launch for most purposes, still giving you harder acceleration than a slushbox (due to the usually much shorter 1st in the manual vs. a measly few extra RPM from a slipping torque converter). It certainly won't compete with a high-RPM clutch sidestep, of course.

But.. but.. then you're being the impatient drive that I hate who starts to roll forward when they should be stopped..

[daleadbull]

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating--- don't worry too much about your clutch. It's designed to slip. A faster launch will generally put a bit more wear on it, but it's really not a significant difference as long as you're not really abusing it. If you want a quick launch, there's really no free lunch....you either have to launch at a higher RPM and a quicker clutch engagement or you'll just have to launch normally and then stomp the gas pedal to get moving quickly.

As far as your question, you can do it either way. If you do pause at bit when lauching at high RPM, you should definite build boost pressure. You'll feel the extra kick as you fully engage the clutch. But you can also do one fluid motion without pausing at all. Just try it both ways and see how you like it. Another thing I should have mentioned---- since you have AWD, you have to make sure you don't bog the engine. What I mean by that is to avoid letting the clutch out too quickly at too low of an RPM. In other words, the traction that your AWD system will give you is much greater than a non-AWD vehicle. So if you basically dump your clutch at a too low RPM, the traction will cause the engine to bog down, which is no fun. That's why I suggested that you practice in a parking lot first. Get a feel for just how much throttle and how much clutch engagement your particular car requires for the speed you want to launch off the line. You can be mild or wild, it's completely up to you. The main thing is figuring out what works with your car and your driving technique.

Yea that's why I mentioned that i have an AWD car. I find that I really need to slip the clutch (pause at engagement) when launching from idle in order to not stall it. This is why I'm afraid to give it gas and let go of the clutch faster.

[six]

Yea that's why I mentioned that i have an AWD car. I find that I really need to slip the clutch (pause at engagement) when launching from idle in order to not stall it. This is why I'm afraid to give it gas and let go of the clutch faster.

The thing you are afraid of (giving it more gas and releasing the clutch quicker) is exactly what you need to do to get off the line quicker. I imagine the only time you are in this situation is when you are in front at a stoplight, or waiting for an opening while turning. All the other times, you can launch however you want, but if you need/want to get off the line quicker, the only way to do that in your car (AWD turbo) is to give it more gas while releasing the clutch quicker. Pick your poison, the way you currently launch, holding the clutch at the friction point for a period of time, pretty much wears the clutch the same as a quick engagement at a higher RPM.

// Oh, and as a side note, don't worry about the automatics around you. So what if they are quicker off the line. Unless it bothers you, of course.

[daleadbull]

I guess I just need to man up and get over my clutch wear paranoia. It's not like I've not tried it before tho. I've tried it and experienced that scratchy resistance feel in the clutch pedal, probably cus I was burning the clutch. I'm guess I just need to release the clutch a bit quicker.