New to driving stick

[tankinbeans]

I've never tried heel-toe and never will. I understand that if for road racing where you have to come into a turn hard, downshifting and braking at the same time so you are ready to nail it coming out of the curve. I don't do that kind of driving.

It's not just for racing. It can be useful (and fun) any time you have to (or just want to) brake and downshift at the same time. Of course someone can go his whole life without ever doing heel-and-toe, but then I'd say that he is missing out on one of the joys associated with driving a manual transmission vehicle.

I ht all the time, not in an aggressive street racing way, when I want to turn but not slow to 2mph.

[ClutchFork]

Wikipedia article on heel toe starts out:

Heel-and-toe[1] is a driving technique used mostly in performance driving,[2] although some drivers use it on the road in everyday conditions in the interest of effectiveness.

Yeah, I don't think I will be doing it. I am more than content on the rare occasions I have to brake hard on a curve or coming to a turn, to simply downshift after braking. It is not a necessity at any rate. It also looks very complicated and I am not the most coordinated person.

Suppose on the freeway in overdrive I come around a curve and the traffic is stopped up. I'll disengage the clutch and hit the brakes hard simulatneously. Once down to a save speed, I wil simply throw it into the appropriate gear, which may mean a 5-2 shift or whatever.

I am sure the heel toe can be a blast once you make it second nature, and I recall doing that years ago but since I did it on a motorcycle I had the advantage of a hand lever for the clutch. Now there is an option, i wonder if someone with a missing leg an get a hand lever clutch in their car? Might be tricky to keep a hand on the wheel though unless the lever were integrated with the shift lever.

[tankinbeans]

I'd think it would be hard in your truck, unless you have big feet. When I drive Smokey I can't do it because the pedals are too far apart.

[ClutchFork]

I'd think it would be hard in your truck, unless you have big feet. When I drive Smokey I can't do it because the pedals are too far apart.

Well I do have big feet (13) and probably would rather try it in the old F150 as the pedals are pretty tight in the Ranger pickup.

[theholycow]

Wikipedia article on heel toe starts out:

Heel-and-toe[1] is a driving technique used mostly in performance driving,[2] although some drivers use it on the road in everyday conditions in the interest of effectiveness.

Yeah, I don't think I will be doing it. I am more than content on the rare occasions I have to brake hard on a curve or coming to a turn, to simply downshift after braking. It is not a necessity at any rate. It also looks very complicated and I am not the most coordinated person.

Suppose on the freeway in overdrive I come around a curve and the traffic is stopped up. I'll disengage the clutch and hit the brakes hard simulatneously. Once down to a save speed, I wil simply throw it into the appropriate gear, which may mean a 5-2 shift or whatever.

I am sure the heel toe can be a blast once you make it second nature, and I recall doing that years ago but since I did it on a motorcycle I had the advantage of a hand lever for the clutch. Now there is an option, i wonder if someone with a missing leg an get a hand lever clutch in their car? Might be tricky to keep a hand on the wheel though unless the lever were integrated with the shift lever.

While it could potentially come in useful in a functional way on some unlikely occasion, those who are driving on public roads in a reasonable and legal manner certainly are very unlikely to ever need it, so there's nothing wrong with not doing it. It's mostly for fun.

As for hand controls, why bother with the hand clutch when you've got two good legs? Instead, get hand throttle and/or hand brake; these are mass-produced standardized items for the disabled. However, even then, I think that would take all the fun out of it.

[RITmusic2k]

I think the idea was that he was already familiar with the mechanics of "HT" when using a hand clutch.

[ClutchFork]

I must say the hand clutch does not seem as fun as the leg clutch. I say leg because your whole leg is involved.

I pretty much like it as is. If handicapped, would like hand throttle and hand brake and use one good leg for clutch.

Worst case like some Volkswagen Beetles had an automatic clutch. I belive that when you moved the shift lever towards a gear or pulled to come out of a gear, an electonic feature actuated the clutch. I remember being in one like that, and that is not bad because you are still shifting and it should be positive unlike any automatic with silly paddle shifter I have tried. But frankly, the clutch is a HUGE part of the experience and shifting alone would not give the fulfilment.

Whoever invented the automatic, the lazy dog, was after peoples wallets, preying upon the lazy masses. Okay that may not be totally true, but it felt good saying it!

[theholycow]

Agreed, there's just not much you can take away from how one operates a manual transmission without taking away something I like.

[rml605]

Something I keep doing for the past week. DC into 2nd, but go into 4th instead and RPMs at like 1K.

BUT I don't touch the gas and I quickly realize it and go into 2nd. Is this still considered lugging and bad for my engine? I need to stop doing this.

[theholycow]

Is this still considered lugging and bad for my engine?

Call it whatever you want, but if it was causing any immediate danger to your engine then you wouldn't have to ask, you'd know. Since you're switching out right away, be assured that there's no chance of it being bad for your engine in any way.

So, why are you missing 2nd? Do you practice the various grips that have been described in threads about avoiding mis-shifting?

[rml605]

Link to that thread?

I don't know, i've stated multiple times how going into 2nd for me is really awkward. I use to from N just pull lever all the way left then down, but now i've been doing it like most do, and just turning my palm to the left and like hooking down. I do it right most times, but often go into 4th.

[RITmusic2k]

Something I keep doing for the past week. DC into 2nd, but go into 4th instead and RPMs at like 1K.

BUT I don't touch the gas and I quickly realize it and go into 2nd. Is this still considered lugging and bad for my engine? I need to stop doing this.

Popping into 4th isn't doing any damage on its own - it wouldn't be "lugging" unless you're trying to apply too much throttle at too low an rpm... just being at low rpms without getting on the throttle will not damage anything. Some would say that even if you did get on the throttle, you wouldn't truly be able to make the engine lug...

I want to say something at the risk of coming across as condescending, but I swear it's only meant as an encouraging statement: Throughout this thread from the beginning, just about every single question you ask has ended with "is this bad? / am I killing my ____?" and the answer has been a universal and resounding "no" every time. I promise the answer will continue to be "no" in just about every circumstance you will encounter in the future under normal driving circumstances. You have absolutely no reason to fear for the wellbeing or longevity of your car through your learning process. If you convince yourself to get over the general fear that you're going to break your car making single mistakes, then you'll find yourself having even more fun and probably even learning your way around your car even faster.

You're doing fine, and your car is doing fine. Now get back to practicing those shifter hand positions!

[tankinbeans]

I think DBW makes it difficult to go full throttle in high gear at low speed.

I shifted 1 to 4 by some random mistake or timing error and went to give Clifford gas and he was like "what, you want me to do something?" and kept twiddling his thumbs.

[theholycow]

DBW does whatever it wants whenever it wants. In my VW at low RPM in a high gear DBW would often open the throttle all the way even when I barely pressed the accelerator pedal. That doesn't mean the car shot off like a rocket...whether the throttle's closed or open, at low RPM the power's going to be about the same, only the pumping loss changes. VW programmed it to apply a fuel-saving strategy that I would have done anyway.

If you haven't, you might want to try watching OBDII TPS data to see what yours is doing, it might be opening as much as you requested and there's just no more power to make...or not.

[rml605]

Something I keep doing for the past week. DC into 2nd, but go into 4th instead and RPMs at like 1K.

BUT I don't touch the gas and I quickly realize it and go into 2nd. Is this still considered lugging and bad for my engine? I need to stop doing this.

Popping into 4th isn't doing any damage on its own - it wouldn't be "lugging" unless you're trying to apply too much throttle at too low an rpm... just being at low rpms without getting on the throttle will not damage anything. Some would say that even if you did get on the throttle, you wouldn't truly be able to make the engine lug...

I want to say something at the risk of coming across as condescending, but I swear it's only meant as an encouraging statement: Throughout this thread from the beginning, just about every single question you ask has ended with "is this bad? / am I killing my ____?" and the answer has been a universal and resounding "no" every time. I promise the answer will continue to be "no" in just about every circumstance you will encounter in the future under normal driving circumstances. You have absolutely no reason to fear for the wellbeing or longevity of your car through your learning process. If you convince yourself to get over the general fear that you're going to break your car making single mistakes, then you'll find yourself having even more fun and probably even learning your way around your car even faster.

You're doing fine, and your car is doing fine. Now get back to practicing those shifter hand positions!

This is definitely true.

It's just this is my first stick car, and clutch paranoia and such is hitting me as my car is approaching 88K on it's original clutch, besides the master slave in which I believe the previous had replaced.