Leasing?

General discussion about cars. Looking to buy a new car? Have a great driving story? Post it here!
NonChalant
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:58 am
Location: New York City

Post by NonChalant »

hockeystyx16 wrote:and if you get bored of a car every 3 years, you need to stop thinking like a greedy rich ass (no matter how rich you are) and modify your current car.

do you move every 3 years because you got bored of your house/apartment? no. exactly. you get tired of the way a certain room looks, you change something. its the same with cars.
On the contrary, I know many people who get new cars every three years. It's not even about being greedy, it's about reliability. I'll admit that five years seems more reasonable to get new cars, but many cars come with warranties for only a certain amount of time (be it three or five years or anything else) and after the warranty expires it can be a headache if something goes wrong, so people just get new cars while their current car is still worth something and they can get a good deal on a trade-in or private sell.

Comparing buying a new car to moving into a new house is an analogy blown out of proportion.

I'll admit that leasing isn't for everyone and it always depends on the situation, but some of you guys are putting it down a little prematurely. Sometimes an open mind doesn't hurt.
bunnyman
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:40 pm
Cars: 2007 tC
Location: Manchester, CT

Post by bunnyman »

hockeystyx16 wrote:do you move every 3 years because you got bored of your house/apartment?
Next month I'm moving for the third time in five years... Whee.

Of course, I'm no longer going to be renting.

It's nice to be rich. Sometimes you have more money coming in than you need, and you saved up a big old pile of cash, so why not get a new car? It's actually a lot more fun than having a bank statement with a lot of digits on the paper. And if it's going to be a choice between buying a whole new car every 2 or 3 years, or leasing the exact same thing for less money, then leasing is the less stupid option.

For stick5, it sounds like you like to drive cars into the ground, so you would not want to lease. It will probably cost you less in the long run to just buy the car off the lot. If it was cheaper to lease, everybody would just do that!!
Prodigal Son
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:20 pm
Cars: 2006 Jetta, 2004 Miata
Location: Ottawa

Post by Prodigal Son »

NonChalant wrote:On the contrary, I know many people who get new cars every three years. It's not even about being greedy, it's about reliability. I'll admit that five years seems more reasonable to get new cars, but many cars come with warranties for only a certain amount of time (be it three or five years or anything else) and after the warranty expires it can be a headache if something goes wrong, so people just get new cars while their current car is still worth something and they can get a good deal on a trade-in or private sell.
This is an interesting observation and it makes me wonder if the car companies do it on purpose. Modern cars are not noticeably less reliable after the warranty runs out. My old Saturn was just as reliable at 10 years old as it was when it was new. No mysterious breakdowns at the side of the road. No mysterious failures to start. Things did start to wear out, of course, but those got caught at the scheduled inspections intervals. I was probably paying $1000 a year in repair costs each year for these replacements, but the car was no less reliable day to day. And $1000 a year is a lot lot less than the payments on a new car.

Economically, therefore, it makes far more sense to keep a car ten years or longer rather than 3, 4, or 5. It makes me wonder if comprehensive warranties are really a kind of FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) tactic to get people to replace their cars on a 3 of 4 year cycle? Give them a comprehensive warranty for the first 3 or 4 years (and build the cost of it into the car -- its just an insurance policy and you can amortize the cost in the same way). That makes the buyer feel warm and safe. Then when the warranty expires, people feel cold and alone and they go back and spend far more money to buy a new car.
Just some guy on the Internet. Heed with care.
hockeystyx16
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 6960
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:54 am
Cars: 95 probe GT
Location: toledo ohio
Contact:

Post by hockeystyx16 »

new cars are built with cheapness in mind. that way they build a car cheap, sell it for a lot, and voila, HMFIC is rich. then the cars break down and cycle repeats.

10k mile oil changes dont exactly help. every car makes advertises the 10k 15k oil changes on their cars. why? so that you get so much sh1t in your motor, it goes FUBAR and your bringing it to the dealer for repairs. more money for them
-Roman
95 Probelem GT
Image
papercliprebel
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:04 pm

Post by papercliprebel »

you get what you pay for. leasing is convenient but you are guaranteed to spend more money in every situation vs. buying and reselling the car. anywhere from a few hundred to several thousand more.

there are TRUE leasing advantages when you can write off the amount (have your own business?) although the same advantage holds true to buying and then amortize some of the value over the duration of ownership.

and the trading cars every couple of years is wasteful, both to you and the environment, and because it is a myth that newer cars are better than 3 year old well maintained cars. i've never seen any stat that backs this up, please show it to me.

why don't you post the numbers that the dealer is quoting you and i'll crunch the numbers. post the cost after destination + tax (the overall cost), the lease quote + what you have to put down, and what your interest rate would be if you financed. also, the target depreciated price if the dealer can give you that and how long.
Prodigal Son
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:20 pm
Cars: 2006 Jetta, 2004 Miata
Location: Ottawa

Post by Prodigal Son »

papercliprebel wrote: there are TRUE leasing advantages when you can write off the amount (have your own business?) although the same advantage holds true to buying and then amortize some of the value over the duration of ownership.
I do have my own business, but my accountant told me that the record keeping, forms, and extra accounting meant that it was not worthwhile to lease my car inside the business. I just have the business pay be a mileage allowance for my business use of my personal car -- which is actually a pretty sweet deal since this is a business expense and so not taxed for the company or for me personally. This is in Ontario. Your jurisdiction may be different.
Just some guy on the Internet. Heed with care.
User avatar
eaglecatcher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 9441
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:04 am
Cars: '90 300ZXTT 5MT
Location: Ithaca, NY

Post by eaglecatcher »

i wouldnt lease. id wait a little longer, save up some more mula, and put dozn enough money to make the payments the same as a lease, except you then get to keep the car at the end. if you cant afford to buy the car, then go used. there are many great used cars, you just have to find them. even a year old car is substantially cheaper because the value plummets once they drive it off the lot.
Z1 Intake
Z1 2.5" Test pipes
HKS 65mm Hi-Power Exhaust
AMS Short Shifter
SZ Subframe Spacers
HKS Vein Pressure Converter
DDM Tuning 6000k HIDs
User avatar
potownrob
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 7833
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:35 pm
Cars: '17 CX-5 GT
Location: Dutchess County

Post by potownrob »

hockeystyx16 wrote:10k mile oil changes dont exactly help. every car makes advertises the 10k 15k oil changes on their cars. why? so that you get so much sh1t in your motor, it goes FUBAR and your bringing it to the dealer for repairs. more money for them
it's okay to do 10k oil changes if you do it right; in general it's the dino oil and cheap oil filters that make it unplausible. i do 10-15k mile OCIs with the Maxima using amsoil synthetic oil and an amsoil filter. the combination of this special filter and amsoil full synthetic oil would hypothetically allow me to run a 20-25k mile OCI with no problems, but I wouldn't do that until I send in an oil sample to the lab and the results come back good.. otherwise you could go with just about any synthetic and a decent filter (m1, purolator plus, wix) and run a 10k OCI. as far as running dino oil, you could run most of them for 10k as long long as you change the oil filter half-way through the OCI. there are some who say it's okay to run one filter if it's a good one like wix, mobil one or purolator, but i personally wouldn't run much longer than a 5000 mile OCI on dino oil. synthetic blend would probably be good to 10k though. the issue then becomes more of making sure the oil level isn't dropping too low. the maxima is my first car that doesn't lose a drop of oil. i changed the oil last fall and when i went to check it the other day, it was exactly at the full mark (don't want to go over that mark btw). wish i could say the same for mom's corolla :oops: :lol:
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
JHamilton
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:47 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by JHamilton »

hockeystyx16 wrote:and if you get bored of a car every 3 years, you need to stop thinking like a greedy rich ass (no matter how rich you are) and modify your current car.

do you move every 3 years because you got bored of your house/apartment? no. exactly. you get tired of the way a certain room looks, you change something. its the same with cars.
If you think that you think like everyone else, you need to stop thinking like an arrogant SOB.

To the OP, one more thing to think about...If you don't want to own the car and can get in it for a good rate, you can sometimes beat the depreciation on the vehicle and come out even.
Silence is golden and duct tape is silver.

2005 Pontiac GTO 6MT
2011 Ram 1500 CC Laramie 4x4
StrangeWill
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:07 pm

Post by StrangeWill »

IMHO: Financially it's stupid.
Prodigal Son
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:20 pm
Cars: 2006 Jetta, 2004 Miata
Location: Ottawa

Post by Prodigal Son »

Generally I think that leasing is a way to scam people who have got into the habit of asking "can I afford the payments" when what they should be asking is "can I afford the price". The "can I afford the payments" mentality leads to permanent indebtedness and eventually to bankruptcy.
Just some guy on the Internet. Heed with care.
User avatar
Standardshifter
Site Admin
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:23 am
Cars: 2005 Legacy GT, Buell
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Post by Standardshifter »

Certainly makes sense to lease...for some people.

Be nice to drive a new 3-series or A4 for ~$400 a month, 15K a year with no maintenance costs or money down. Who wants to deal with a Audi electrical system 5 years down the road anyway? :P

Really only makes $$$ sense for luxury vehicles that have a low depreciation rate.
-Standardshifter
Shifting the Standard of Automotive Websites
User avatar
Standardshifter
Site Admin
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:23 am
Cars: 2005 Legacy GT, Buell
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Post by Standardshifter »

Oh, and you don't have to pay a lease based on the MSRP... Just like buying a car, the price can be negotiated, reducing the amount you pay in terms of lease rates based on depreciation.
-Standardshifter
Shifting the Standard of Automotive Websites
Prodigal Son
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:20 pm
Cars: 2006 Jetta, 2004 Miata
Location: Ottawa

Post by Prodigal Son »

Standardshifter wrote:Be nice to drive a new 3-series or A4 for ~$400 a month, 15K a year with no maintenance costs or money down.
Yes, but in 10 years you will have paid $150,000 to drive a car that you could have bought for $40,000 and maintained for $1000 a year for a total of around $50,000. Admittedly there is a future value calculation on the initial $50,000 to take into account, but on the other hand you have to inflate the $15,000 a year lease vs the $1000 a year maintenance as the years go by.

It's true that you will have had the use of three cars in the lease scenario instead of the one car in the purchase scenario. But then again, you will have paid three times as much.
Just some guy on the Internet. Heed with care.
Tinton
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3086
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:01 pm
Cars: 91 MR2t, 88&86 Fieros
Location: GA

Post by Tinton »

As someone who's had a few cars, and who's had to sell a couple cars, I'd rather lease my daily driver. Its just personal opinion though, I would rather "rent" a car for 3 years, then get a new 1, than put up with having to sell the car if I owned it. Investing in cars, especially NEW cars doesn't make any sense, because by the time you're ready to sell the car has usually lost like 50% of its value.

For a decent car, for 3 years at 400 a month, you'd end up spending $14400 total. Of course you don't end up with the car in the end....

That same car you might buy for $40,000, and spend 5 years paying it off with higher payments. Then, in the end its probably only worth $25,000 or less if you want to get rid of it. You spent a total of $40,000, lose $15000, so you might actually be further in the hole. And then you still have to wait 6 months to a year to sell the thing, meanwhile you might still be driving it, paying to fix it, paying insurance on it, etc etc while you want to get into your new car.

It isn't as backward as it seems, really, if you're looking to get some Camry or other boring car ( :P to the Camry owners here haha) I don't really see why you'd get so attached to it that you'd want to keep it after the lease is up. It also isn't as bad financially as you might think you don't end up with the car in the end, but for most cars out there, you wouldn't want to end up with the thing and trying to sell it.

My plan when I get older is to keep 2-3 "fun" cars that are completely paid off, and I'll lease a new daily driver.
Image
Post Reply