The beast has come...

A place to post photos and discuss your car.
ClutchDisc
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 755
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:50 pm
Cars: 2009 Mazda 5 2.3L 5MT
Location: Detroit area

Re: The beast has come...

Post by ClutchDisc »

No, it was in Dearborn.
09 Mazda 5 2.3 5-speed manual 171k
11 Subaru Forester auto :( 113k
92 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 5-speed manual 151k
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: The beast has come...

Post by ClutchFork »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:10 am was the show on or near Mustang Alley / 9-Mile Road in Ferndale?

I saw many Ford Broncos (Bronchi?) at the Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise this year. I thimpk Ford was encouraging their participation as part of drumming up interest in the next generation Bronco.
Show was at Ford World Headquarters in Dearborn.

What's with the new Bronco? Can you get a manual transmission in it? Is it a Sissy-U-V or a REAL Bronco like they used to make them?
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11606
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: The beast has come...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Doan bleef Ford's 'nounced details yet. Just sayin' it's coming for 2020 MY. Graphic looks like a Mustang with the front brakes locked up.
Image
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
IMBoring25
Moderator
Posts: 3418
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: OK, USA

Re: The beast has come...

Post by IMBoring25 »

In 2020 for 2021 MY. The Mustang-inspired crossover is a different product.
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: The beast has come...

Post by ClutchFork »

The beast got a present a couple weeks ago. Had it upgraded from the stock 2.73 rear end to a 3.73. What a difference. Much quicker, much better for everyday driving, much better for creeping through parking lots. It's like the 2.73 was just wrong, like having a 3-speed with two overdrives. The 3.73 is like a 4-speed with one overdrive. It cruises 70 mph around 2100 rpm in 5th.

I also figured that the guy who sold it to us, when he had a remanufactured T5 installed about 30,000 miles ago, that he was anticipating the 3.73 and so must have had the reman fitted up with a 2.95 first gear like in the older Fox Mustangs, where the 1992 would normally have a 3.35 first. The 2.95 first is much better with the 3.73 because the 3.35 x 3.73 will have you shiftin in the intersection. I can run first out to 35 mph easily with this 3.73. Figure at the same road speed I turn 2700 in first but 1800 in second, that is about 1.50 which is close to the 2.95 first to the 1.94 second. A 3.35 would figure aroound 1.7.

The guy gave us a ring and pinion in a box labeled 3.73, but it turned out to be a 3.55 and was not in good condition. The mechanic looked at it and said there was rust pitting and some small chips that would significantly shorten the life of the gearset so we opted for a brand new gearset and went with the more desired 3.73.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11606
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: The beast has come...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

ClutchFork wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:47 pm The beast got a present a couple weeks ago. Had it upgraded from the stock 2.73 rear end to a 3.73. What a difference. Much quicker, much better for everyday driving, much better for creeping through parking lots. It's like the 2.73 was just wrong, like having a 3-speed with two overdrives. The 3.73 is like a 4-speed with one overdrive. It cruises 70 mph around 2100 rpm in 5th.

I also figured that the guy who sold it to us, when he had a remanufactured T5 installed about 30,000 miles ago, that he was anticipating the 3.73 and so must have had the reman fitted up with a 2.95 first gear like in the older Fox Mustangs, where the 1992 would normally have a 3.35 first. The 2.95 first is much better with the 3.73 because the 3.35 x 3.73 will have you shiftin in the intersection. I can run first out to 35 mph easily with this 3.73. Figure at the same road speed I turn 2700 in first but 1800 in second, that is about 1.50 which is close to the 2.95 first to the 1.94 second. A 3.35 would figure aroound 1.7.

The guy gave us a ring and pinion in a box labeled 3.73, but it turned out to be a 3.55 and was not in good condition. The mechanic looked at it and said there was rust pitting and some small chips that would significantly shorten the life of the gearset so we opted for a brand new gearset and went with the more desired 3.73.
Wow, good news to hear....I mean read. In my experience, not having enough overall ratio in 1st gear is like trying to launch from a standstill in 2nd gear. It makes clutch modulation difficult, and prolongs the slipping.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11606
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: The beast has come...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 9:06 am
ClutchFork wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:47 pm The beast got a present a couple weeks ago. Had it upgraded from the stock 2.73 rear end to a 3.73. What a difference. Much quicker, much better for everyday driving, much better for creeping through parking lots. It's like the 2.73 was just wrong, like having a 3-speed with two overdrives. The 3.73 is like a 4-speed with one overdrive. It cruises 70 mph around 2100 rpm in 5th.

I also figured that the guy who sold it to us, when he had a remanufactured T5 installed about 30,000 miles ago, that he was anticipating the 3.73 and so must have had the reman fitted up with a 2.95 first gear like in the older Fox Mustangs, where the 1992 would normally have a 3.35 first. The 2.95 first is much better with the 3.73 because the 3.35 x 3.73 will have you shiftin in the intersection. I can run first out to 35 mph easily with this 3.73. Figure at the same road speed I turn 2700 in first but 1800 in second, that is about 1.50 which is close to the 2.95 first to the 1.94 second. A 3.35 would figure aroound 1.7.

The guy gave us a ring and pinion in a box labeled 3.73, but it turned out to be a 3.55 and was not in good condition. The mechanic looked at it and said there was rust pitting and some small chips that would significantly shorten the life of the gearset so we opted for a brand new gearset and went with the more desired 3.73.
Wow, good news to hear....I mean read. In my experience, not having enough overall ratio in 1st gear is like trying to launch from a standstill in 2nd gear. It makes clutch modulation difficult, and prolongs the slipping.
I remember having a version of the NVG T750 with ratios for 2.0L engine installed in a vehicle that had the 2.4L engine. Kept the original clutch from the 2.4L, but all those that drove it after the silverbox was swapped marveled at "How much better this clutch was". The tranny for 2.0 L had about 15% more overall gear ratio in 1st gear than the trans for the 2.4L.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: The beast has come...

Post by ClutchFork »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:58 am I remember having a version of the NVG T750 with ratios for 2.0L engine installed in a vehicle that had the 2.4L engine. Kept the original clutch from the 2.4L, but all those that drove it after the silverbox was swapped marveled at "How much better this clutch was". The tranny for 2.0 L had about 15% more overall gear ratio in 1st gear than the trans for the 2.4L.
Seems they tend to increase the gear ratio on first and the final drive ration for smaller engines. My 2008 Fusion has a 4.39 final drive and turns 3000 rpm at 70 mph in overdrive. I like the peppiness but always wish I had a 6th gear. Definitely easier to launch with a lower gear. When I worked at the Gulf Station on Eight Mile Road and Chapel (near Lahser) in Detroit (1970s), I would put the tow truck in first gear, crank the starter and roll out. That was the creeper gear and it was so easy the starter could launch the truck. Ha, top speed in creeper was perhaps 10 mph if that.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: The beast has come...

Post by ClutchFork »

So here is a quirky one for the Mustang. When we upgraded to the 3.73 I checked the drive speedometer gear to ensure the correct new ratio and bought a 21 tooth driven gear. The guy had an 18 tooth in there and for the 2.73 it should have been a lot less than that, so we already were off. I recall driving a mile with the 2.73 and it read something like 1.1 miles.

When I put in the 21 tooth, the odometer was within about 2.2 percent. I drove 4.5 miles and it said I went 4.6 miles. So I have the correct gear.

I ran it past some of those radar speed signs and, gong 30 mph it said I was doing 22! Then at 45 it said I was doing 39. So that is off by 8 at lower speed and off by 6 at higher speed. One would expect it to be a percentage of road speed not the inverse. Well now I don't trust those signs even though I tried two different ones and was only 1 mph different at .45.

I ran a stopwatch over a set distance instead. I got indicated 33 mph came out to 27.5 mph (abt 5.5). At 72.5 mph indicated I got 68.7 mph. Given the slip in trying to run at a set speed and the accuracy of starting and ending points for the stop watch (my cell phone recorder ticking off seconds), I figure on average I must be off by about 4.5 mph at all speeds. That makes more sense and would indicate the needle is off a little. Actually, when sitting still the needle is sitting around 3 or 4 mph. Not sure there is a fix for that other than a whole new unit, but I will just drive about 4-5 mph over the limit and call it a day.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
ClutchDisc
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 755
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:50 pm
Cars: 2009 Mazda 5 2.3L 5MT
Location: Detroit area

Re: The beast has come...

Post by ClutchDisc »

Haha I haven’t logged on here in ages and here is the old Mustang thread alive and well. :lol:
09 Mazda 5 2.3 5-speed manual 171k
11 Subaru Forester auto :( 113k
92 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 5-speed manual 151k
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: The beast has come...

Post by ClutchFork »

Mystery solved. I ran some more stopwatch tests. A set distance at indicated 30 mph and got 25 actual. Ran a set distance at indicated 45 (Hines Drive) and got 40 actual. A new run on the freeway at indicated 75 gave 70 actual. so basically we are off by indicted 5mph too high. I can live with that.

The speedo needle sits about at 3 mph when stopped, so my guess is Ford purposefully has the car running 2 mph slower than indicated and my speedo needle is about 3 mph off.

BTW, the 2008 Mazda 5 indicated 70 mph and was actually 68 mph. I think I will do this stopwatch test on all my vehicles. It is easy and can help you not drive too slow.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11606
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: The beast has come...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

I spent a summer as an intern engineer for GM Tire and Wheel Engineering at the GM Proving Grounds in Milford, Michigan. I remember there was a proposed federal legislation to require speedometer accuracy to within +-1%. That would have been impossible to nail for various reasons.

The drive and driven gears for the speedo cable set a hard ratio between the transmission output shaft speed and the RPM of the speedo cable. You might desire a very specific ratio, but in the physical design, you are limited by the tooth counts of the two gears, so it may end up that you have to make a choice between 23 teeth or 24 teeth on the driven gear, but the "Perfect" ratio would require 23.3333 teeth. There is only so much space available for the drive gear diameter, so if you tried to use 3 x the teeth in the drive gear and 70 teeth for the driven gear the pitch of the teeth would have to be very small and gear mesh and gear durability may become a problem.

Then there is the problem of tire size - from a given size of tire from a given tire manufacturer, their tire's revs per mile has a nominal value and a tolerance range. Buy a tire of the same size from manufacturer XYZ and their tire will likely have different nominal and tolerance range values for Revs per mile. Now, add to that the revs per mile increases as the tire tread wears, and also changes depending on the inflation pressure, the speed being driven, and the load the tire is carrying.

Maybe the most important factor is that you would not want to have your speedometer under-report the vehicle speed such that you weren't aware you were exceeding the speed limits. Better to err on the side of over-reporting your speed than under-reporting. What are you losing - a few minutes on most trips?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kVqhk9sD50[/youtube]

Does anybody really know what time it is?
(Care) does anybody really care?
(About time) you know, I can't imagine why
(Oh no, no) we've all got time enough to cry
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Post Reply