Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by IMBoring25 »

Without AWD, you should only need to worry about diameter differences on the drive axle and that's only a significant concern if you have a limited slip differential.

If you're worried about it, get the new one shaved.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob »

tankinbeans wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:57 pm The overall diameter is the same and the bolt pattern identical. I'd rather just replace the one and then get better winter tires when the time comes, but might not happen.
eye was worried about the overall diameter of the tires; eye know the wheels are the right ones for your car.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher »

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by AHTOXA »

tankinbeans wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:34 am
potownrob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:28 am Pretty sure it’s an inherent design flaw of many turbo engines. What makes you think the 2.0T is better; it could easily just be that there are far fewer examples of that engine out there. Either way, it’s probably blown out of proportion, like most things.
You could very well be correct, but I've not read anything thing about the problem cropping up in the 2.0T. This might not mean much, but at least it's one data point.

Also, I have yet to locate a dealer who has a 1.5T 6MT in stock to try out. They're all CVTs in stock up here and I'm just not interested.
To a varying degree Ford's Ecoboosts both the 2.7 and 3.5 also suffer with dilution. The 3.5 is worse it seems, but the 2.7 is not immune and while I didn't notice any major oil level rising, the oil always smelled pretty strongly of fuel during oil changes. I'm pretty sure that oil dilution happens in many of not all model turbo engines that are trying to eek out the most performance along with the best fuel economy and at a reasonable cost.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by AHTOXA »

watkins wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 11:15 pm I have finally confirmed that the Jeep doesn't mind towing. Put about 2100 pounds behind it (that little 1200 lb capacity Harbor Freight trailer is a champ) and it did quite well both acceleration and braking. Being a two door, the tow rating is only 2000 lbs, but I see no reason that it couldn't handle significantly more assuming tongue weight is kept in check and the trailer has brakes.

On the topic of that trailer... Adding up the total towed weight made me realize for the first time just how heavy the trailer is. In pounds, the trailer is 253, spare tire is 20, deck is 45, and the sides are probably 140. Add on my intensely over-engineered wiring harness that I upgraded to 7 pin, reverse lights, extended fenders, and quite a lot of assorted hardware/brackets and I can comfortably say it weighs over 500 lbs. Considering I can pretty easily pick up the rear and pivot it on a hitch, I'm quite surprised.
With the two door, the wheelbase is going to be the limiting factor for towing. I think the reality is that most people don't pay very close attention to tongue weight or overall payload number; they just take the max trailer weight number published and go off that. And as you know, tongue weight, payload and thus weight distribution of the trailer is far more important than the overall weight of what you're towing.

So overall, I think that 2k rating is a rather 'safe' number manufacturer uses to ensure that a wide range of towing conditions is covered safely, including scenarios where people do not pay attention to tongue weight but only go off total.

Related, but I did tow a somewhat loaded 6x12 enclosed trailer right after the break-in was done on the 4-Runner and it did it quite admirably. What was a head-scratcher to me was the payload. My TRD offroad config has a payload of a measly 850-is lbs total. That number includes all passengers and other cargo. The trim without a rear locker has a payload of around 1150+ as I recall. I've not been able to come up with 300 lbs of equipment that my 4x4 TRD has over a regular non-TRD 4x4. With 850 lbs and two passengers (say me and the GF are 320 lbs combined + 130 lbs worth of dogs) and dogs is 460 lbs of payload right there not including any gear, water, hitches, etc. This leaves me with roughly 400 lbs of payload left, which means that with 2 people and 2 dogs, I'm not likely to be able to legally tow 5k without exceeding payload. if I have 4 passengers with me, I'm pretty much right at payload anyway.

But in the end, I don't tow enough or heavy enough to need any more. The tradeoff for offroad goodies is worth it to me.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by IMBoring25 »

I'd expect there's some compromise in the TRD suspension that makes it less suitable as a stable towing/hauling platform. I could see softer shocks and roll bars being selected depending on what usage they're trying to optimize for.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by watkins »

AHTOXA wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:27 pm With the two door, the wheelbase is going to be the limiting factor for towing. I think the reality is that most people don't pay very close attention to tongue weight or overall payload number; they just take the max trailer weight number published and go off that. And as you know, tongue weight, payload and thus weight distribution of the trailer is far more important than the overall weight of what you're towing.

So overall, I think that 2k rating is a rather 'safe' number manufacturer uses to ensure that a wide range of towing conditions is covered safely, including scenarios where people do not pay attention to tongue weight but only go off total.
My friend tows a rather large pop-up with his two door JK and it looks absurd because tongue weight on those things is awful. He does have the better gearing since that was actually an option back then, so it has a 3500 pound rating. I've suggested time and again to use the front bumper tow hooks as a way to mount some sort of counterweight just for better handling characteristics. I feel like even throwing 100 pounds up there would make a world of difference in putting some weight back on the steering axle. If I do ever end up with some ridiculous load behind ours I'll probably just chain a couple of barbell plates up there.

But as you said, I actually do understand the physics of it all so I don't have any fear in terms of driving an overloaded vehicle and trailer.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher »

watkins wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm
AHTOXA wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:27 pm With the two door, the wheelbase is going to be the limiting factor for towing. I think the reality is that most people don't pay very close attention to tongue weight or overall payload number; they just take the max trailer weight number published and go off that. And as you know, tongue weight, payload and thus weight distribution of the trailer is far more important than the overall weight of what you're towing.

So overall, I think that 2k rating is a rather 'safe' number manufacturer uses to ensure that a wide range of towing conditions is covered safely, including scenarios where people do not pay attention to tongue weight but only go off total.
My friend tows a rather large pop-up with his two door JK and it looks absurd because tongue weight on those things is awful. He does have the better gearing since that was actually an option back then, so it has a 3500 pound rating. I've suggested time and again to use the front bumper tow hooks as a way to mount some sort of counterweight just for better handling characteristics. I feel like even throwing 100 pounds up there would make a world of difference in putting some weight back on the steering axle. If I do ever end up with some ridiculous load behind ours I'll probably just chain a couple of barbell plates up there.

But as you said, I actually do understand the physics of it all so I don't have any fear in terms of driving an overloaded vehicle and trailer.
I have a weight-distributing hitch for my larch pop-up camping trailer. It helps a lot. It has friction blocks rather than chains, so it damps out side-to-side oscillations as well. I got it originally when I was towning with a minivan. Before then, it got all squirmy-like when accelerating onto a freeway.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by AHTOXA »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:34 pm
watkins wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm
AHTOXA wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:27 pm With the two door, the wheelbase is going to be the limiting factor for towing. I think the reality is that most people don't pay very close attention to tongue weight or overall payload number; they just take the max trailer weight number published and go off that. And as you know, tongue weight, payload and thus weight distribution of the trailer is far more important than the overall weight of what you're towing.

So overall, I think that 2k rating is a rather 'safe' number manufacturer uses to ensure that a wide range of towing conditions is covered safely, including scenarios where people do not pay attention to tongue weight but only go off total.
My friend tows a rather large pop-up with his two door JK and it looks absurd because tongue weight on those things is awful. He does have the better gearing since that was actually an option back then, so it has a 3500 pound rating. I've suggested time and again to use the front bumper tow hooks as a way to mount some sort of counterweight just for better handling characteristics. I feel like even throwing 100 pounds up there would make a world of difference in putting some weight back on the steering axle. If I do ever end up with some ridiculous load behind ours I'll probably just chain a couple of barbell plates up there.

But as you said, I actually do understand the physics of it all so I don't have any fear in terms of driving an overloaded vehicle and trailer.
I have a weight-distributing hitch for my larch pop-up camping trailer. It helps a lot. It has friction blocks rather than chains, so it damps out side-to-side oscillations as well. I got it originally when I was towning with a minivan. Before then, it got all squirmy-like when accelerating onto a freeway.
I could be mistaken, but I think weight distributing hitch is required for anything over 5k lbs. And if not, it's definitely a good idea to have.

When it comes to towing, the most important thing is not to exceed the payload of the vehicle along with GCWR. In most vehicles payload is the first thing you'll run out of when towing anyway.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher »

AHTOXA wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:22 pm
Rope-Pusher wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:34 pm
watkins wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm

My friend tows a rather large pop-up with his two door JK and it looks absurd because tongue weight on those things is awful. He does have the better gearing since that was actually an option back then, so it has a 3500 pound rating. I've suggested time and again to use the front bumper tow hooks as a way to mount some sort of counterweight just for better handling characteristics. I feel like even throwing 100 pounds up there would make a world of difference in putting some weight back on the steering axle. If I do ever end up with some ridiculous load behind ours I'll probably just chain a couple of barbell plates up there.

But as you said, I actually do understand the physics of it all so I don't have any fear in terms of driving an overloaded vehicle and trailer.
I have a weight-distributing hitch for my larch pop-up camping trailer. It helps a lot. It has friction blocks rather than chains, so it damps out side-to-side oscillations as well. I got it originally when I was towning with a minivan. Before then, it got all squirmy-like when accelerating onto a freeway.
I could be mistaken, but I think weight distributing hitch is required for anything over 5k lbs. And if not, it's definitely a good idea to have.

When it comes to towing, the most important thing is not to exceed the payload of the vehicle along with GCWR. In most vehicles payload is the first thing you'll run out of when towing anyway.
Correctomundo! You have to read the fine print. One of my minivans listed in big, bold numerals "3,500 lbs Tow Rating*", but when you followed the asterisk, it meantioned that the trailer's frontal area was limited to maybe 24 square feet, and if you added any passengers in the middle or rear seats, or added any cargo, there were reduced tow ratings that applied. Now on one hand, I knew I wasn't going to tow up a long, steep grade in extremely hot temperatures, but on the other hand, the chassis, brakes, and tires are other factors that determine the tow rating and I still had to deal with the lawless physicists.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by watkins »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:45 pm I still had to deal with the lawless physicists.
Working as I do at a dealer called Lawless, I can attest that those physicists and their physics arent always quite right
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by AHTOXA »

Casting off for Durango, CO in the morning. Sadly not yet moving to CO but just a vacation. Got a car it with some friends and gf family; gonna be a good time.

I was hoping to explore the passes a bit more this year (driving the 4Runner) but I’m seeing reports of floods and mud up at elevation. It appears that the snowpack was deep this year and is melting late causing some problems.

Either way, looking forward to a number of days in the mountains.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher »

AHTOXA wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:45 pm Casting off for Guadalajara, Mexico in the morning. Sadly not yet moving to mexiCO but just a vacation. Got a car it with some friends and gf family; gonna be a good time.
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I was hoping to explore the downtown a bit more this year (driving the 4Runner) but I’m seeing reports of hail avalanches. It appears that the freak hailstorm is causing some problems.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/01/americas ... index.html
Either way, looking forward to a number of days in the mountains.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by wannabe87 »

Man I’m glad I don’t work at a dealership. Cars come in over night and weekends (holiday ones and regular) and placed haphazardly around the lot (i assume, cuz there’s 4 days of deliveries) and then you get in to a mess!

Also who names the car colors? Symphony (Hyundai) is not grey, should be brown or gold because wood instruments or brass. Hyundai has like 4-5 car colors for gray - symphony, coliseum, triathlon, machine and mineral. I’m sure I’ll find more as we go thru Hyundai calls. We picked up their rap program.

Electric is blue. Venetian is red. I would not have guessed for either of those. Thank goodness for google.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob »

wannabe87 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:03 am Man I’m glad I don’t work at a dealership. Cars come in over night and weekends (holiday ones and regular) and placed haphazardly around the lot (i assume, cuz there’s 4 days of deliveries) and then you get in to a mess!

Also who names the car colors? Symphony (Hyundai) is not grey, should be brown or gold because wood instruments or brass. Hyundai has like 4-5 car colors for gray - symphony, coliseum, triathlon, machine and mineral. I’m sure I’ll find more as we go thru Hyundai calls. We picked up their rap program.

Electric is blue. Venetian is red. I would not have guessed for either of those. Thank goodness for google.
50 shades of grey?? What’s this world come to?!? At least more companies have a decent pearl white metallic color these days; used to be just the luxury brands with the pearl whites.
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