Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

[Rope-Pusher]

Een forrrmer So-be-it Union, Stealership is sell YOU to czar!

Ford will exit Russian passenger-car market

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-sup ... 1-readmore

[ClutchFork]

Why is that person in that photograph mooning the photographer?

[potownrob]

Why is that person in that photograph mooning the photographer?

In Soviet Russia, anything goes (you’ve seen the dash cam vids, no??)




*not into photography, I gather. that’s the guy’s hand moving beside him. motion blur from the slow shutter speed makes it look like an exposed moon.

[Rope-Pusher]

Why is that person in that photograph mooning the photographer?

In Soviet Russia, anything goes (you’ve seen the dash cam vids, no??)

*not into photography, I gather. that’s the guy’s hand moving beside him. motion blur from the slow shutter speed makes it look like an exposed moon.

....OR NOT!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io53QMwHZ48[/youtube]

[Rope-Pusher]

Last night's snow stayed put on the ground and on vehicles. Streets and sidewalks are clean and dry, but it was bonded tightly to the car windows and difficult to scrape off.

Last week was the start of the next two years of my life - I-75 construction project is replacing Northbound lanes this year and Southbound lanes next year. Until it's done, we have to play nice with all traffic jammed onto one side of the freeway in narrow lanes with no shoulders/break-down lanes and a limited number of entrance and exit ramps. Of course this means that any alternate routes are bogged down by drivers hoping to avoid the freeway slow-down. Phun Phun!

[Rope-Pusher]

Yanno, If I scaled up this costume design, I could drive my Jeep on the empty side of the construction zone!

[AHTOXA]

I have to say, after over 90k combined miles, I'm pretty much over the turbocharged motor deal for a DD vehicle. It's just...not worth it to me as a consumer. It's more complex, it's less reliable (in my experience) and while it wasn't costly out of pocket for me, I think it certainly has a high potential to be so down the line when out of warranty.

I appreciate the torque and the decent power delivery modern forced induction smaller motors produce but I am glad to be back in an NA. It's more linear, better off the line and down low and just much less headache. It seems that some manufacturers are still dealing with fuel dilution in the oil (Honda, Ford, others), coolant and oil leaks at the turbos and other related issues such as carbon deposits (granted, some have solved it like Ford with their newer dual-injected Ecoboosts). But overall, it's not for me. I'm willing to give up some power for fewer headaches and reliability concerns.

EDIT: I wasn't so sure at first, but the 4.0 ~280hp/270tq NA motor is just about perfect. Yes, it's old, yes, it's port injected, yes it gets shit fuel economy (same as my half ton Ford did with 100 less HP), but there's no denying its charm with its clutch-driven cooling fan and all. Highly pleased, to be honest.

[tankinbeans]

Unfortunately, NA engines are becoming less and less available. The new Escape is going turbo only, unless you want a hybrid, with a 1.5T 3 cylinder as the base engine and the 2.0T 4 as an upgrade.

[potownrob]

In a way, it’s a potential paradox with the turbo engines. You can potentially get significantly better mpgs than a comparable V6 or whatever the turbo replaced in a brand’s lineup, which is better for the long haul (long term / distance mpg gains more important than short term / distance), but the engine may potentially have significant problems long term. For example, I enjoy the much improved mpg of the turbo golf over the NA Jetta, plus the power is better (though the Jetta was no slouch), but the NA jetta engine (2.5 litre I5) will probably still be running or able to run after we’re all dead and buried. Even though VW has been making turbo engines for a long time and they keep getting better, I can’t picture the turbo 4 lasting nearly that long without problems.

[watkins]

I have to say, after over 90k combined miles, I'm pretty much over the turbocharged motor deal for a DD vehicle. It's just...not worth it to me as a consumer. It's more complex, it's less reliable (in my experience) and while it wasn't costly out of pocket for me, I think it certainly has a high potential to be so down the line when out of warranty.

As someone who has exclusively driven high mileage turbo engines for over a decade, I trust them. Mine have all been completely reliable. I have yet (knock on wood) to have a single turbo or engine related problem. That includes after tuning a car that still had a factory turbo at 186k miles. The Viggen now has over 220k. The wagon crossed over 100k a few weeks ago. I tuned that to within an inch of the engine's life at 96k. We'll see how that goes.

We opted for the 2.0 turbo in the JL, and that's been great for the last 8k miles. Aside from one bad turbo that my coworker replaced yesterday, I haven't heard of any real issues with that engine.

Realistically I think the general rule is to never buy an American boosted engine. Stick with the European products. They seem to last.

[Teamwork]

I have to say, after over 90k combined miles, I'm pretty much over the turbocharged motor deal for a DD vehicle. It's just...not worth it to me as a consumer. It's more complex, it's less reliable (in my experience) and while it wasn't costly out of pocket for me, I think it certainly has a high potential to be so down the line when out of warranty.

I appreciate the torque and the decent power delivery modern forced induction smaller motors produce but I am glad to be back in an NA. It's more linear, better off the line and down low and just much less headache. It seems that some manufacturers are still dealing with fuel dilution in the oil (Honda, Ford, others), coolant and oil leaks at the turbos and other related issues such as carbon deposits (granted, some have solved it like Ford with their newer dual-injected Ecoboosts). But overall, it's not for me. I'm willing to give up some power for fewer headaches and reliability concerns.

EDIT: I wasn't so sure at first, but the 4.0 ~280hp/270tq NA motor is just about perfect. Yes, it's old, yes, it's port injected, yes it gets shit fuel economy (same as my half ton Ford did with 100 less HP), but there's no denying its charm with its clutch-driven cooling fan and all. Highly pleased, to be honest.

It's funny I'm pretty much completely sold on turbo charged engines after being very skeptical 3-4 years ago. It's at a point where I pretty much do not want to DD anything that isn't. I don't have the most extensive resume of turbo charged / super charged cars but I still have the GTI which I would consider "run of the mil - sporting" but I've driven the Jetta, Passat, Accord, Civic, and Fusion and have to say I'm probably too addicted. The gas mileage benefits are real as is the usable torque down low. Knocking on wood but I've literally had no issues with my drivetrain and engine on my GTI rounding over 50k on the clock (though the car has had issues). My friend has the basic TSI in Golf format and has over 120k -- only thing he did which isn't routine (or maybe is routine) was intake manifold carbon cleaning. In stock formats I don't see why these cars would run into out of the ordinary issues pre 100k.

Irony curveball: Been taking a longer look in at the Mazda 3 which still has avoided turbos. I feel that most of the professional opinions are very positive on this vehicle- torsion beam and all. First, lets talk about my work scenario 2.5 weeks in now that I've kind of settled in.


Work has been great honestly compared to what I was coming from. I know a lot of you guys last year told me to get up and ditch a bad situation as soon as it was brewing but honestly in this "shaky" economy I was a bit nervous. I was going through a lot at the end of last year and being able to leave a bad penny wasn't a gauranteed win in my mind. I'm glad though of the outcome now and the commute is quite a bit different and much longer for me but I've been surviving. The offer to pull me into Midtown Manhattan was "an offer that couldn't be refused" -- I would've never been able to make this type of money staying on Long Island in the same field, simple as that. My train ticket annually though will come out to being 5k a year though with that being said. As spoken about prior; I do the least amount of driving I've probably ever did since my early college days. My round trip to the train yard and back to my residency is literally just under 16 miles total. It's still a mix of local surburb and main 495 highway driving (albeit 1.5 exits) so I can't drive a total slug but I definitely want to down grade from the GTI.

Yes, it's unbelievable that an American actually wants to downgrade in car title. I just don't feel like the GTI deserves this life and could be enjoyed by someone else. The car sits in a train yard now for 9 hours a day; where it basically bakes in the elements, gets door dings, and barely driven. My wife is never going to learn to drive stick and honestly my main priorities in a car have basically become; remote start, working heat/AC, and ability to baby. My dad's version of a train car (he worked in the city for over 35 years) is a 1990 Ford Taurus Wagon which had no AC/heat, would engine overheat after driving 15 miles (he only lived 5 miles from the train station), and had the famous Ford paint peel of the 80's. I would want to do a little bit better then that haha.

So, I've been all over the place from looking at subcompact, compact, and base level mid sizes. I would even dabble in the used market but I'm not feeling so strongly about it. I just need something that's literally taking the same route everyday and that can do it reliably. I'm probably back into candidacy of leasing as well though if I was going after a car that was under 22k I'd probably just buy it. It's funny though I want it to be nice enough to let people know that I'm still working full time but not nice enough that every door ding hurts my soul. The demographic that gets out of my train station literally are the rudimentary lexus, mercedes, and audi crop-- and I'm looking at Honda Fits from the GTI...

I wonder how much money they are making if they are leasing those and paying for a 405 dollar monthly train. What kind of cars can you lease for 800 a month?

[tankinbeans]

Personal suggestion. Unless you don't value your hearing, avoid the Fit. Unless it's changed that thing is loud, buzzy, and spins entirely too fast on the freeway. If I recall from my rental it was running right around 3500 RPM at 70 mph. It's also pretty tinny.

Of the other vehicles you mentioned, I only have experience with the now prior generation Mazda3 with IRS. I've not driven the new one with a torsion beam. That said, since the engine is a carryover 2.5, your mileage will be pretty good. In my car 35-38 combined mpg isn't hard, and it's a bit heavier. Though with your short commute to the train yard it might not be long enough to fully realize the economy benefits.

saying nice things about turbos and recommending staying with the Europeans.

Is it safe to say that the formats you're used to are such that the engine itself is enough to motivate the vehicle and the turbo is just a nice add-on, they're not quite so badly stressed as the micro-turbos that are becoming prevalent. With the new Renegade getting a 1.3T and the Explorer offering a 2.3T, I would think those would be pretty stressful applications. CAVEAT: I cop to the fact that I'm no mechanical engineer and may be pulling things out of the chute.

[Teamwork]

Personal suggestion. Unless you don't value your hearing, avoid the Fit. Unless it's changed that thing is loud, buzzy, and spins entirely too fast on the freeway. If I recall from my rental it was running right around 3500 RPM at 70 mph. It's also pretty tinny.

Of the other vehicles you mentioned, I only have experience with the now prior generation Mazda3 with IRS. I've not driven the new one with a torsion beam. That said, since the engine is a carryover 2.5, your mileage will be pretty good. In my car 35-38 combined mpg isn't hard, and it's a bit heavier. Though with your short commute to the train yard it might not be long enough to fully realize the economy benefits.

That's what scares me about going "D Class" -- they seem to be built pretty well to a modern day standard but I'm sure sound deadening here is non existant to scarce. I have test driven last gen's mid cycle refresh and the first year modern day gen of the Fit but test drives don't usually entail anything past 40 mph on Long Island. I'm surprised they haven't just adjusted the CVT in this car to make it highway suitable-- seems like a fairly easy fix. The only detriment I really had about this car in my test drives was it was laughable that the vent control is physically a lever in the dashboard which you can feel the vent open and close. My 95 corolla had the same thing .

Really the only subcompact cars I'd even consider are essentially the Fit, Accent/Rio, and maybe Toyota Yaris (mazda 2 variant). I know I said cheap transport that wont hurt my soul when the doors dent and ding but I draw the line at the removal of a center arm rest. I'm talking about the ones that basically can be shared by the driver/passenger and store unnecessary items. I know that's a weird dealbreaker to have in a car but it is for me... I'd literally take the above-- a car that sounds like I'm driving with a window open at highway speeds (when its not) then no center arm rest.

Another beautiful thing about this class is the depreciation is essentially non existent. I don't have to worry about losing 20k in 4 years when the car didn't cost 20k to begin with. I'd most likely either do 1 of two things; A) buy the car outright and treat it as an appliance or B) lease at a disgustingly low rate and keep swapping them out every 3 years.

The gap though between what you get at subcompact level versus compact though seems to have distanced themselves quite a bit. I always used to say the gap between compact and mid size was significant but compacts have gotten pretty good.

[tankinbeans]

The lack of an armrest isn't a weird deal breaker. You want what you want and don't need to justify it. I personally would consider a CX-3, but for the fact that there's no real armrest (the ones that flip down don't count in my book). The again I'm single and have no desire to change that any time soon.

I'm annoyed that Toyota took what was a relatively handsome, if staid, design from the Demio and tacked on the fish grille to make the Yaris. The Yaris by Mazda is disgusting to behold.

[Teamwork]

The lack of an armrest isn't a weird deal breaker. You want what you want and don't need to justify it. I personally would consider a CX-3, but for the fact that there's no real armrest (the ones that flip down don't count in my book). The again I'm single and have no desire to change that any time soon.

I'm annoyed that Toyota took what was a relatively handsome, if staid, design from the Demio and tacked on the fish grille to make the Yaris. The Yaris by Mazda is disgusting to behold.

I'm happy to have finally met someone with the same sentiments here because honestly when I bring this up to dealership sales people they look at me like I have 3 heads. Back in 2013 when I got my Forte I was really shopping around in the subcompact / compact class. I have this vivid memory of a Chevy salesman popping out a Sonic hatch and the arm rest substitute (can't think of a better word) literally your arm would have to have the substance of a 10 year old elementary school kid to have this "after thought" be usage. When he asked me how I felt about the car and I complained about the arm rest he literally told me "not to be ridiculous".


I don't really use it extensively for storage necessities but it's a nice spot to put your "always need you; never want to see you" items.

In looking extensively at the 3 I've been using the CX3 and the old 3 as reference points. I'm really on board with Mazda's interior and exterior but yeah the arm rest thing just seems like such an odd omission. The price premium for subcompacts and AWD is pretty ridiculous though IMO. Add AWD (isn't that the point of an SUV?) and go for a middle trim for subcompact class and you're looking at 25-26k easy. Is a subcompact SUV really comparable to an entry level/mid level mid size sedan now?