Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

[ClutchFork]

I don't trust General Motors as far as I can throw them. There is no way I'd ever spend new car money on a General Motors product. As far as I'm concerned the sooner they fold the better.

Sad how all us taxpayers had to bail them out (unwillingly) and this is the result.

[tankinbeans]

I don't trust General Motors as far as I can throw them. There is no way I'd ever spend new car money on a General Motors product. As far as I'm concerned the sooner they fold the better.

Sad how all us taxpayers had to bail them out (unwillingly) and this is the result.

Pretty much.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that recalls happen and don't fault a company for making an error (if they own it and fix it promptly), but passing the buck for 10 years is ridiculous.

I also seem to recall GM engaging in a certain amount of schadenfreude regarding the Toyota acceleration thingy. Tasteless much?

[Squint]

This blog post/article from Forbes covers quite a bit of the history of the GM issues, for those that don't know quite as much.

On the bailout issue, at least the government sold all of the stock they had and only took an $11 billion loss on GM stock. I say only because they still managed to bring in $10.9 billion more than they dispersed as part of the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP). So overall, TARP could be considered a succes..? Maybe..?

[theholycow]

This blog post/article from Forbes covers quite a bit of the history of the GM issues, for those that don't know quite as much.

As she told the committee Tuesday, there should be no tradeoff between cost and safety.

...if that was true, airbags would not be disabled with the ignition switch turned off. Of course, if that was true then transportation would not work the way it does, it would be very very different. We would be driven in tanks operated by professionals, surrounded by an Army platoon, with FAA flight plan systems adapted for road use and FAA-like regulations...and I'm sure I haven't even come close to scratching the surface of "no tradeoff between cost and safety".

On the bailout issue, at least the government sold all of the stock they had and only took an $11 billion loss on GM stock. I say only because they still managed to bring in $10.9 billion more than they dispersed as part of the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP). So overall, TARP could be considered a succes..? Maybe..?

Interesting.
Despite the $11 billion loss on the GM bailout, the Treasury Department was quick to point out that it has recovered a total of $432.7 billion on all investments under the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) – including the sale of its shares in AIG – compared to $421.8 billion disbursed.

So there was actually a profit for the program as a whole, though perhaps an opportunity loss in that the same money could have made more profit used differently.

Also, the article reminds us of what was at stake. When discussing it we often think of it as something that GM begged for and was just for their sake, but there are the potential other issues at stake, mentioned in these bits of that article:
A study released Monday by the Center for Automotive Research concluded that the government bailout of GM spared 1.2 million jobs in 2009 and preserved $39.4 billion in personal and social insurance tax collections in 2009 and 2010.

"If the U.S. government had refused to assist (GM and Chrysler)… in a financial crisis of unprecedented proportions, "

“The bottom line is that a failed GM would have left a lot of collateral damage,”

Also, the much larger banking bailouts...I hate to think that those damn jerks got easy money when they were failing from the very bullcrap that they did to people, but we might be in even worse condition than we are now if they had failed...though unlike GM, failed banks would leave a void that would HAVE to be filled.

Interesting stuff, and good to be reminded that it was about more than just saving a bunch of jerks from their failures.

[monkeyhunk]

I don't trust General Motors as far as I can throw them. There is no way I'd ever spend new car money on a General Motors product. As far as I'm concerned the sooner they fold the better.

Can I get an Amen?

[ClutchFork]

I also seem to recall GM engaging in a certain amount of schadenfreude regarding the Toyota acceleration thingy. Tasteless much?

We would be driven in tanks operated by professionals, surrounded by an Army platoon, with FAA flight plan systems adapted for road use and FAA-like regulations...and I'm sure I haven't even come close to scratching the surface of "no tradeoff between cost and safety"

That would stop car jackings! Oh wait, that is car jacking on a massive scale!

[noob5,000,000]

For some reason Claude and Captain Pineapple were extremely terrified of something this morning. They went into serious hiding mode in the basement and we couldn't even find them until mid-afternoon. They're both still jumpy and won't come out of hiding for more than a few minutes at a time.

[IMBoring25]

As she told the committee Tuesday, there should be no tradeoff between cost and safety.

...if that was true, airbags would not be disabled with the ignition switch turned off. Of course, if that was true then transportation would not work the way it does, it would be very very different. We would be driven in tanks operated by professionals, surrounded by an Army platoon, with FAA flight plan systems adapted for road use and FAA-like regulations...and I'm sure I haven't even come close to scratching the surface of "no tradeoff between cost and safety".

A shocking statement for someone with an engineering background to make, even with a figurative gun to her head...

[Squint]

A shocking statement for someone with an engineering background to make, even with a figurative gun to her head...

I'm fairly certain that if anyone with an engineering background makes that statement, they have forgotten all of their engineering. Like Cow said, we'd all be driving tanks if safety was the first priority. And then bigger tanks, and then something even bigger and more indestructable.

Safety may be a main priority but it certainly isn't the only priority.

[tankinbeans]

Yours for the low low sum of 380,000 pounds, and a waiver saying you're not a baddy. Room in the back for 10 of your mates.

[Boston Fit]

"No tradeoff between cost and safety" ... that comment is best understood as PR copy designed to assuage the public, developed either by GM's crisis agency or an internal public relations team. It cannot be taken literally - and there is no way GM's CEO adheres to it literally - for the reasons that others have stated.

"Profitable tradeoffs between cost and safety, taking industry norms, consumer demand, legal and regulatory constraints into consideration" ... would be the un-massaged version of that same quote.

[potownrob]

cow's an engineer?!?!

[SonicHKS]

I don't trust General Motors as far as I can throw them. There is no way I'd ever spend new car money on a General Motors product. As far as I'm concerned the sooner they fold the better.

Can I get an Amen?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-10 ... 2013-02-16

Ford still holds the record for the 3 biggest recalls of all time. I wouldn't trust a Ford more than I can throw it. Same with Chrysler/MOPAR.

[Mcs1990]

I don't trust General Motors as far as I can throw them. There is no way I'd ever spend new car money on a General Motors product. As far as I'm concerned the sooner they fold the better.

Can I get an Amen?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-10 ... 2013-02-16

Ford still holds the record for the 3 biggest recalls of all time. I wouldn't trust a Ford more than I can throw it. Same with Chrysler/MOPAR.

I'm not sure I'll call it a lack of trust, but GM and Chrysler don't offer many cars I'm even interested in. Ford at least has made great improvements in the Focus ST and Fiesta ST lineup. If that has any indications to where Ford is going, the Mustang should be promising. GM really only has more expensive cars like the vette or new Z28. Dodge has nothing (viper is way expensive).

[theholycow]

^Honestly, there is plenty of evidence of why we shouldn't trust any manufacturer, and I've come to a point that I pretty much hate them all. The playing field is pretty level as far as trust (lack thereof) is concerned.

cow's an engineer?!?!

I read it like that at first too.

Funny thing, though. Today on facebook I found out that I may actually be one. You could kinda call me a network engineer with my skill set and professional responsibilities. I found out when I watched and identified with this: