Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

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Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by Rope-Pusher » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:26 am

It even explains about how/why/when it will restart the engine after a stall as the driver pushes the clutch pedal to the downstop.

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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by AHTOXA » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:40 pm

I have auto stop/start in my truck and to be honest, I don't see the value in it, nor real life fuel savings. I've left it on for extended time and I've left it off. No real difference in fuel economy that I could see.

It just gets annoying when the a/c is on, because it restarts the motor just 20-30 seconds after shutdown. At least when the a/c isn't on it will keep it off for a couple minutes. Additionally, Ford's fuel mapping gets all weird after shutdown and restart on a hot day with the a/c on, where the truck shakes noticeably after restart, even through the revs are stable. The system isn't smooth and I think it's mostly there for the CAFE standards under specific parameters. Meh.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by Rope-Pusher » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:31 pm

AHTOXA wrote:I have auto stop/start in my truck and to be honest, I don't see the value in it, nor real life fuel savings. I've left it on for extended time and I've left it off. No real difference in fuel economy that I could see.

It just gets annoying when the a/c is on, because it restarts the motor just 20-30 seconds after shutdown. At least when the a/c isn't on it will keep it off for a couple minutes. Additionally, Ford's fuel mapping gets all weird after shutdown and restart on a hot day with the a/c on, where the truck shakes noticeably after restart, even through the revs are stable. The system isn't smooth and I think it's mostly there for the CAFE standards under specific parameters. Meh.
It all depends on your paerticular duty cycle whether it saves a significant amount of fuel or not, but the EPA gives automobile manufacturers a fuel mileage offset credit for incorporating stop/start. I don't even believe that it shows much in the EPA vehicle testing, so the credit is not based on the testing but based on being an amount of fuel mileage offset credit that is worthwhile to go through the steps in order to qualify for.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by ClutchFork » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:59 pm

Oh wow. I have been noticing on my walk to work that a light will change and I will hear a car engine start. I was wondering if we were to the day of engines shutting off while stopped at a light. And to think, some people who drive a stick keep it in gear with their foot on the clutch pedal the whole light (I don't). This is quite the opposite. Maybe a good thing as those automatics tend to want to creep into the intersection and with today's inattentive drivers, it is very likely to happen, but with the engine shut off, they will not creep.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by tankinbeans » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:22 pm

Oh they'll creep. Just takes a twitch on the brake pedal to cause the vehicle to rumble back into life. I've driven two current Fords (an F150 and an Edge) with the stop/start system and they're just as likely to creep as any other auto.

I have yet to experience a manual with the system, but I expect it would require a slightly different driving style. I'm constantly working to make sure I can pull off from a light as soon as it changes and am cycling clutch-in gear held or clutch-out in neutral.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by theholycow » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:47 pm

Stop/Start has been on modern production vehicles for probably a decade and a half, though it's becoming more common now obviously.

For 2004-2007, GM had an interesting hybrid half ton pickup. It was not the relatively common design that they offered from 2009 on. It was basically just a Stop/Start, or as I just learned in Wikipedia it's called a "micro-hybrid". It had a 42 volt electric motor in the transmission bellhousing whose job was to be both a starter and generator. The interesting and very cool thing was it also had four 120 volt 20 amp AC outlets. I wanted one, and still do. Wikipedia tells me that GM bought them back from their owners at a premium price. I wonder why?

With regards to manual transmissions, I imagine that it fires when you just barely let the clutch pedal come up from the floor a little - before it starts to grab. Therefore, it shouldn't present a problem for quick-reaction green light launches, though it might perhaps sacrifice a little efficiency idling if your foot timing is early.

I'm surprised that the F150's Ecoboost with Stop/Start doesn't have electric air conditioning. Maybe that would have required too much battery.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by Rope-Pusher » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:26 pm

Cowster,
Amish Stop/start won't shut off the engine unless the trans is in neutral and the clutch engaged. With the engine off, it will restart when the clutch pedal is burried or if the battery voltage is getting to be lower than some setpoint.
GM bought back Chevrolets with the coppercooled engines due to extreme concerns about their durability. I would imagine any buybacks in these modern times we live in would be due to safety or customer satisfaction concerns.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by ClutchFork » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:58 am

Amish don't want stop/start. We like to blip throttle while sitting in neutral at light.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by AHTOXA » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:55 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:
AHTOXA wrote:I have auto stop/start in my truck and to be honest, I don't see the value in it, nor real life fuel savings. I've left it on for extended time and I've left it off. No real difference in fuel economy that I could see.

It just gets annoying when the a/c is on, because it restarts the motor just 20-30 seconds after shutdown. At least when the a/c isn't on it will keep it off for a couple minutes. Additionally, Ford's fuel mapping gets all weird after shutdown and restart on a hot day with the a/c on, where the truck shakes noticeably after restart, even through the revs are stable. The system isn't smooth and I think it's mostly there for the CAFE standards under specific parameters. Meh.
It all depends on your paerticular duty cycle whether it saves a significant amount of fuel or not, but the EPA gives automobile manufacturers a fuel mileage offset credit for incorporating stop/start. I don't even believe that it shows much in the EPA vehicle testing, so the credit is not based on the testing but based on being an amount of fuel mileage offset credit that is worthwhile to go through the steps in order to qualify for.
And that's likely the reason for proliferation of start/stop. Sure, Ford and other manufacturers beef up the starters as well as the lubrication system in order to support longevity, but... For example, the F150s with stop/starts require you to wait 15 mins after stopping engine to check oil, because the use a system to keep oil in the motor longer before it drains to the sump.

I just turn it off every time I start the truck; no big deal. Some people get all bent out of shape for having to turn it off every time, but that doesn't bother me.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by Shadow » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:39 am

So I purchased a 2017 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk to replace my old 4Runner and it has a start/stop system. I honestly don't like it at all, but I don't always turn it off either. What really bugs me is when I'm pulling into my garage to park. The moment that I come to a stop, the engine instantly shuts off. But then when I put it into Park, the engine fires right back up, only to have me shut it off again. It's ridiculous.

BTW, still have the Audi too.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by tankinbeans » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:10 pm

Oh my god, Shadow lives!

This is the new A5, correct?
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by Shadow » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:01 pm

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Here you go.... The Jeep is a 2017 and the Audi is a 2016. My prior A5 was a 2011, which is basically the same thing, but the new one has the "facelift" front end.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by Shadow » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:05 pm

BTW, I've been around every once in a while, but this place is so dead these days. It's a shame...

Here's another pic, but this time in the garage of my new house. Garage is almost finished, but not quite yet.

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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by potownrob » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:13 am

Shadow wrote:BTW, I've been around every once in a while, but this place is so dead these days. It's a shame...

Here's another pic, but this time in the garage of my new house. Garage is almost finished, but not quite yet.

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yeah, the SS isn't that busy lately, not dead though (it has been at times though). makes me wonder if members are cheating on the SS, or maybe they're just busy. i go on other forums, but usually come back to check the SS, despite not even driving manual anymore. not many new members lately, that i've noticed at least. i think we had this convo before, but didn't you have another jeep recently that you hated?? i also thought you got the new gen a5 (??). either way, welcome back again.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by Shadow » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:20 am

potownrob wrote:yeah, the SS isn't that busy lately, not dead though (it has been at times though). makes me wonder if members are cheating on the SS, or maybe they're just busy. i go on other forums, but usually come back to check the SS, despite not even driving manual anymore. not many new members lately, that i've noticed at least. i think we had this convo before, but didn't you have another jeep recently that you hated?? i also thought you got the new gen a5 (??). either way, welcome back again.
I had a Grand Cherokee Overland (black) that was an awesome vehicle other than the shitty 8-speed automatic that never worked right. And to be honest, the new one isn't exactly perfect either. These are ZF 8 speeds that are widely used in luxury cars and they are supposedly very good transmissions. Unfortunately, FCA can't seem to get the software right on them. Oh well, at least they haven't ever left me stranded. I would have gotten another 4Runner to replace my old 2004, but I can't stomach the looks of the new 4Runner. And for whatever reason, Toyota has been with the same generation 4Runner since the 2010 model year, so the damn thing is ancient at this point. I don't know why they don't come out with a new generation already....but the old one seems to be selling stronger as it ages. Go figure.

As for the Audi, I do not like the B9 (second generation) cars at all from a styling standpoint. I do love the facelifted B8 cars (known as B8.5), so I had to get a new one before they were gone. I still really love driving the car, but I got bit by the mod bug when I purchased the new one. I did suspension (KW fully adjustable coilovers), bigger hybrid turbo & tune running adjustable boost levels (up to 25 psi), AWE quad tip exhaust (which is still quiet, but has a much nicer sound than the OEM exhaust) and a few other things here and there. So much more fun than stock.
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