When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Squint » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:43 am

zenfiz6 wrote:Wow... I'm quite impressed with the thermo talk in here. Gettin' me all hot... and... uhm... fizixy. :lol:

I haven't heard any outright lies, so this will be my nit-picking response:

... [stuff that pulls back memories from College, part. 1] ...

<vanishes in a puff of physics textbooks>
You. I like you. :D

Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by zenfiz6 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:08 am

Squint wrote: [after having read stuff that pulls back memories from College, part. 1]

You. I like you. :D
Can you get some of that to rub off on my non-fizix-major students? :? :roll:
Squint wrote: Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
I just try to stay true to the physical model. Otherwise, I find that short-cut reasoning is often rife with un-asserted assumptions. Relying on that information when those assumptions fail can cause problems.

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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by RITmusic2k » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:59 pm

Shadow wrote:Thanks for the lesson, but you're not telling me anything that I don't already know. I learned long ago that even the most efficient ICE loses about 75% efficiency as wasted heat. But that waste heat is also free when it comes to using it to heat the cabin. Why? Simple....it's already a completely unavoidable byproduct. In other words, it's 100% impossible for an ICE engine to operate without creating heat. So how is it not free to warm the cabin with that wasted heat? Of course it is free. Is that heat created by the power source of the car? Absolutely. But here's the difference-- that 75% wasted heat would be wasted no matter what....and to capture some of it and use it to warm the cabin is what makes it free. With an electric car, none of this applies. You're basically consuming the same power to heat the car that propels the car.

Here's a more simplistic way to think about it: Running the heater on an electric car will significantly reduce it's range. Running the heat on a gasoline car will not. That's the unavoidable truth.
Hey Shadow, thanks for clarifying here. I got so caught up in taking you to task for calling that heat 'free' that I missed the real-world implication you were pointing out. I agree that ICE vehicles do not suffer from range depreciation nearly as badly as do electric vehicles when driving accessory systems. I still believe we should avoid thinking of it in terms of 'free' heat, but that is indeed another discussion.

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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Squint » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:07 pm

zenfiz6 wrote:
Squint wrote: [after having read stuff that pulls back memories from College, part. 1]

You. I like you. :D
Can you get some of that to rub off on my non-fizix-major students? :? :roll:
Squint wrote: Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
I just try to stay true to the physical model. Otherwise, I find that short-cut reasoning is often rife with un-asserted assumptions. Relying on that information when those assumptions fail can cause problems.

Physics is Phun! :D
It wouldn't have helped the first time around. My mindset is much more conducive to learning, retaining, and WANTING to learn this time around.

The first time through college, it is far more of, "I'm just continuing school to continue school because I've been schooling for as long as I can remember" with the way most schools are set up. So the desire to retain the information or learn it completely must come from really dedicated students, rather than just the students who want good grades/to pass and move on in their major.

At least that is how it seems/(seemed?) to me.
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by zenfiz6 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:06 pm

Squint wrote: [Getting your students to like you] wouldn't have helped the first time around. My mindset is much more conducive to learning, retaining, and WANTING to learn this time around.

The first time through college, it is far more of, "I'm just continuing school to continue school because I've been schooling for as long as I can remember" with the way most schools are set up. So the desire to retain the information or learn it completely must come from really dedicated students, rather than just the students who want good grades/to pass and move on in their major.

At least that is how it seems/(seemed?) to me.
Nail. Head. This.

You aren't a liberal-arts professor on the side, or something, are you? :wink:
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Shadow » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:00 pm

zenfiz6 wrote: Uhm, if you, the original poster, will recall: the topic was "When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?"
Yeah, exactly. And the more we veer off topic, the less likely it will ever get back on track. Next thing you know, we'll be talking about the World Cup or perhaps the next election. :lol:
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Shadow » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:03 pm

zenfiz6 wrote: Given what I know about heat pumps, I might call up Nissan and ask them about that at temperatures usually found in Chicago in February.
Indeed, now that I'm actually using one for the first time in my life, I find that it has trouble keeping the house warm below about 40F/4C
Tell me about it. I live in NY and for whatever reason, they put a heat pump system in my house. From what I understand, a heat pump system makes much more sense in a warmer climate. Using my heat pump all winter does nothing but jack up my electrical bill much more than the value of the gas it saves me using my furnace.
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by tankinbeans » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:09 pm

Shadow wrote:
zenfiz6 wrote: Uhm, if you, the original poster, will recall: the topic was "When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?"
Yeah, exactly. And the more we veer off topic, the less likely it will ever get back on track. Next thing you know, we'll be talking about the World Cup or perhaps the next election. :lol:
Are we still contenders in the WC or did we get booted?
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by six » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:20 pm

We play tomorrow against Belgium. Whether we move on or not depends on the outcome lol, do or die, loser goes home.
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Squint » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:43 am

zenfiz6 wrote:
Squint wrote: [Getting your students to like you] wouldn't have helped the first time around. My mindset is much more conducive to learning, retaining, and WANTING to learn this time around.

The first time through college, it is far more of, "I'm just continuing school to continue school because I've been schooling for as long as I can remember" with the way most schools are set up. So the desire to retain the information or learn it completely must come from really dedicated students, rather than just the students who want good grades/to pass and move on in their major.

At least that is how it seems/(seemed?) to me.
Nail. Head. This.

You aren't a liberal-arts professor on the side, or something, are you? :wink:
:lol: :lol: No, though I do have a liberal arts degree.

I'm back in school for technically a third time (got a BA, enrolled in a dumb Masters program, dropped that nonsense after <1 semester, and am enrolled now for BS in Mech. Eng.). It's far more important to me this time that I actually understand the information being taught because I'm not only trying to get a grade. I'm trying to see if there is anything I learn that could be useful at my job - which is Mechanical Engineering for the most part. Or even if there is something else that calls my name more than what I am currently doing that I didn't realize the first time I started engineering.

I occasionally ponder "what-ifs" regarding different methods of education: apprenticeships, interning, technical schools, etc... I would say it is far more common for someone in their mid 20s to either a) know what they want to do with their lives, or b) not know but realize they have the ability to do a job which can pay for their hobbies, than for an 18 or 19 year-old who has just been pushed from school to school learning because they have been told they need to learn then go to college then get a job.

For the record, I mostly fall into b) of the previous two choices. I am good enough to do the job well but it's not a life calling or anything. I have a job that is fairly flexible about time and realizes that people have lives outside of work. Sure, the pay could be better, but I'm not ready to make that trade-off yet, it ever.

(Full disclosure: At one point I did consider teaching and also considered counseling (among many other choices) - which would have been career counseling, not mental health)
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by AHTOXA » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:46 am

six wrote:We play tomorrow against Belgium. Whether we move on or not depends on the outcome lol, do or die, loser goes home.
Yeah, I need to make sure that I don't look at facebook or Google now this afternoon. I actually want to watch the game later this evening w/o knowing the outcome.
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by zenfiz6 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:46 am

Shadow wrote:
zenfiz6 wrote: Uhm, if you, the original poster, will recall: the topic was "When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?"
Yeah, exactly. And the more we veer off topic, the less likely it will ever get back on track. Next thing you know, we'll be talking about the World Cup or perhaps the next election. :lol:
I believe that's called "leading the witness" in a court of law. :wink:

Now, show me the thread where, on page 3, we're still talking about the topic.

Ahh... the curious chaotic character of clever conversation. :)
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by zenfiz6 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:05 pm

Squint wrote:
zenfiz6 wrote: You aren't a liberal-arts professor on the side, or something, are you? :wink:
:lol: :lol: No, though I do have a liberal arts degree.

I'm back in school for technically a third time.... It's far more important to me this time that I actually understand the information being taught because I'm not only trying to get a grade. I'm trying to see if there is anything I learn that could be useful at my job - which is Mechanical Engineering for the most part. Or even if there is something else that calls my name more than what I am currently doing that I didn't realize the first time I started engineering.
As you said, most young'uns just try to "get through" school because, well, isn't that what they're supposed to do? But when people get out in the real world for a little while, the value of education becomes apparent. instead of the stick of bad grades pushing them sluggishly through their coursework, the carrot of useful knowledge pulls them forward. This seems to be what you're saying is happening to you: the information means something to you.

Whenever students ask me if they should go to gradual skool, I always tell them that---if it's not obvious that they should go---they should take a year or two off and try a job they'd like to have. Only after some experience "out there" tells them that they want to learn something will they have the drive to make it through a graduate program.
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Squint » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:14 pm

zenfiz6 wrote:As you said, most young'uns just try to "get through" school because, well, isn't that what they're supposed to do? But when people get out in the real world for a little while, the value of education becomes apparent. instead of the stick of bad grades pushing them sluggishly through their coursework, the carrot of useful knowledge pulls them forward. This seems to be what you're saying is happening to you: the information means something to you.

Whenever students ask me if they should go to gradual skool, I always tell them that---if it's not obvious that they should go---they should take a year or two off and try a job they'd like to have. Only after some experience "out there" tells them that they want to learn something will they have the drive to make it through a graduate program.
Coincidentally enough, I had this exact discussion in brief with a 24 yr old girl from my calc class today. We're there to learn, not just to get a grade and fulfill a requirement.
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Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Shadow » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:55 pm

tankinbeans wrote:
Shadow wrote:
zenfiz6 wrote: Uhm, if you, the original poster, will recall: the topic was "When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?"
Yeah, exactly. And the more we veer off topic, the less likely it will ever get back on track. Next thing you know, we'll be talking about the World Cup or perhaps the next election. :lol:
Are we still contenders in the WC or did we get booted?
Booted now.....oh well. Like most Americans, I really don't give a crap about soccer. If it's not football or baseball, I have very little interest.
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