1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Off-topic posts, quotes of the day and anything else you just would like to vent to the world. PG-13 or below PLEASE!
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by tankinbeans »

94Corolla5Speed wrote:I think he meant daleadbull. And tank, it wasn't 2 different ratios, it was 1st and 2nd gear, if that's what you're wondering.
It wasn't 1st and 2nd gear, but 2 different final drives. I've seen the statistics on a couple of those cars with two final drives. I think 1 ratio generally covers odds plus reverse, while the other covers evens.

I can't wrap my head around how it all works.

EDIT: Rough guesses 13 mph @ 2000 rpm
3500 rpm @ 20 mph

I can't get any more exact because I didn't want to focus top much on the dash whilstc driving home. Might update again when I can have a passenger check it while I drive.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Lemme Spline this to you, Lucy.
Image

Image
So, in a transaxle, there is an input shaft with splines that the clutch disk rides on out in the bellhousing.
On the inner-end of the input shaft are some speed range gears machined from or splined to the shaft and a synchronizer hub or two splined to the shaft with a gear on either side of the synchronizer hub that are riding on bushings or bearings over the shaft (they only transmit power when the synchro hub outer sleeve slides over and mates with them (I thought this was a fambilly site!)

Then there is an intermediate shaft (some folks call them output shafts - they are wrong, but watcha gonna do?), with some gears machined from or splined directly to it and others riding on bushings or bearings, again on either side of a Synchro hub that is splined to the shaft. Somewhere on the intermediate shaft is a gear, either splined to it or machined from it, that mates with the final drive ring gear on the differential housing. The ratio between the the tooth count on the differential ring gear and the tooth count on the gear it mates with (they just cant stop) on the intermediate shaft is the one and only final drive ratio....unless there are two (2) intermediate shafts and they each have a different tooth count on their respective gears that mate (like bunnies) with the differential ring gear.

Image
Here is a Manual Transaxle, or MTX with one intermediate shaft (= 1 final drive ratio).

Image
Here is an MTX with two (2) intermediate shafts (= 2 final drive ratios)
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by tankinbeans »

I think I understand. I might have to ruminate on that for awhile before I can truly wrap my gray matter around it.

Thank you.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Y 1 vs. 2 intermediate shafts?

2 shafts helps keep trans overall length down, while making it more barrel-shaped.

In a transverse layout, trans length adds to powertrain length and may eventually restrict the angles that the wheels can be steered before they hit the trans case or the front frame rails. Ever driven a PT Cruiser? Everything feels fine until you crank the steering wheel hard over to pull into a parking lot space and the steering rack hits its stops sooner than expected, you can't turn in as sharply as you would like to, and you have to back up and go forward again to complete the turn. 4-speed automatic trans that fit fine in the minivans added length to the PT powertrain and steering rack had to be redesigned to restrict the steering angles of the wheels.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by tankinbeans »

That actually makes a ton of sense. It's a packaging deal. Is there a mechanical advantage, such as better gearing or more gearing options?

Are my questions overly naive/stupid?
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by Rope-Pusher »

tankinbeans wrote:That actually makes a ton of sense. It's a packaging deal. Is there a mechanical advantage, such as better gearing or more gearing options?

Are my questions overly naive/stupid?
Maybe more gearing options - more ways to get to there
Maybe also more torque capacity due to shorter shafts = less shaft bending.
(I just hate when gears try to separate from each other by bending the shafts or flexing the transmission case.)
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by ClutchFork »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Image
Here is a Manual Transaxle, or MTX with one intermediate shaft (= 1 final drive ratio).

Image
Here is an MTX with two (2) intermediate shafts (= 2 final drive ratios)
Ah such breathtakingly beautiful pictures of gearbox innards! :D
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
daleadbull
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:18 pm
Cars: VW Golf R

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by daleadbull »

theholycow wrote:D'oh! Image

I don't often think in bovinity contexts outside of my own username and hadn't even thought of that name being cowish. Funny tangent, the first time I saw that username I read it as "Dale dead bull" like some kind of Native American name, and even though I eventually looked closer and understood, that's how I pronounce it in my head. However, when I think about it, the important concept that comes to mind is "lead", hence why I don't think "moo".
Haha that's funny, how vain of you! :D

My name doesn't have to be bovine related, it can mean bull elephant etc, basically the leader of the pack/alpha male.
2012 VW Golf R
User avatar
Squint
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3390
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: KY

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by Squint »

daleadbull wrote:
theholycow wrote:D'oh! Image

I don't often think in bovinity contexts outside of my own username and hadn't even thought of that name being cowish. Funny tangent, the first time I saw that username I read it as "Dale dead bull" like some kind of Native American name, and even though I eventually looked closer and understood, that's how I pronounce it in my head. However, when I think about it, the important concept that comes to mind is "lead", hence why I don't think "moo".
Haha that's funny, how vain of you! :D

My name doesn't have to be bovine related, it can mean bull elephant etc, basically the leader of the pack/alpha male.
Big whoop, wanna fight about it?

Image

Another dumb question: which of those shafts is the intermediate and which is the input shaft? I feel like I want someone with MS Paint to just label all the parts in terrible handwriting to complete the picture...
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

For Pony!
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: 1st Gear: post your MPH @2000 rpm & RPM @ 20 MPH

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Squint wrote: Another dumb question: which of those shafts is the intermediate and which is the input shaft? I feel like I want someone with MS Paint to just label all the parts in terrible handwriting to complete the picture...
There are no dumb questions, just dumb question askers!

Image
Here is a Manual Transaxle, or MTX with one intermediate shaft (= 1 final drive ratio).
The Top-Most shaft is the Input Shaft.

Image
Here is an MTX with two (2) intermediate shafts (= 2 final drive ratios)
The Left-Most shaft is the Input Shaft.
Image
You DO know what shaft this one is, right?
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Post Reply