What do you do for work?

[eggwich delfiero]

I too feel like student loans are good debt, at least, the least harmful debt. My loan rates were super low, and it built up my credit. I still have like $800 in student loan debt, but since I was in school for fun I am in a forebearance period or whatever it's called. Still, it will feel good to pay it off.

Just got my tax returns last week. Did I buy tires and coil-overs like I wanted to, or put it toward a new car? Amazingly, I did the grown up thing and paid off two of my three credit cards. Feels good man, feels good.

[beowulf80]

Nice, and grats on paying those cards off.

The only "good" debt is no debt. Paying interest just gets you in a deeper hole.

Standard unavoidable debt (house payments, bills, paying credit cards full balance every month) will get you as much credit as you'll ever need.

Think I'm wrong? My 825 credit score says otherwise.

[eggwich delfiero]

Nice, and grats on paying those cards off.

The only "good" debt is no debt. Paying interest just gets you in a deeper hole.

Standard unavoidable debt (house payments, bills, paying credit cards full balance every month) will get you as much credit as you'll ever need.

Think I'm wrong? My 825 credit score says otherwise.

Thanks, feels good to pay cards off. Introductory APRs were ending soon and I didn't want to get crushed with crap rates. Last care is at zero percent til next April, so I'll knock it out before then.

I agree with your views above, but I feel student loans fall into the unavoidable debt pile for most of us. And with debt with tax-deductible interest, like student loans or house payments, it's often better to invest the money rather than pay off debt. If your after-tax rate of interest is smaller than expected after-tax returns on investments, it's better to invest. Of course, it goes without saying that this never applies to credit card debt, lol, unless you're floating a zero rate or something.

Speaking of investments, I know you folks love them smartphones, so I ask: Noka, sink or swim? Their stock has tanked due to symbian's suckiness and their failure to compete in the smartphone arena, but they still make some nice dang phones and partnered with Microsoft to hopefully solve their software woes. So Nokia stock, slam it or jam it?

[FDSpirit]

The gubment still owes me .75 from an old loan. Will I ever see it? Nope. But let me owe them 3 quarters. They'd be all over me like white on rice.

[watkins]

The only "good" debt is no debt. Paying interest just gets you in a deeper hole.

Standard unavoidable debt (house payments, bills, paying credit cards full balance every month) will get you as much credit as you'll ever need.

Think I'm wrong? My 825 credit score says otherwise.

You contradict yourself. No debt and the standard debt that is required to even get you a credit score in the first place are not the same.

[eaglecatcher]

Nothing at the moment. Well, technically I am employed as a valet but I haven't had a shift since July, so...

Right now I'm looking for work, in TX preferably. I have a BS in electrical engineering. I just started applying last week, though. I had been going to graduate school. I'm still enrolled, but I'm not taking any classes right now.

Should apply to Texas Instruments in Richardson!

[eaglecatcher]

And now, what I do:

Still in school, but I work in biology research. Been doing it since my senior year of high school.

First gig back home was neuron development/maturation, or "neurogenesis." That was pretty cool, and we should have a paper coming out in Nature Neuroscience soon. I spent my Thanksgiving and Winter breaks collecting data for that shit, so it better haha.

Now, I'm in a lab here at school studying reproductive endocrinology, trying to learn more about the structure of the GnRHReceptor signaling pathway.

Pretty nifty stuff, and I like it a lot. I get paid too, and if nothing else, I should be able to waltz right in with a wonderful lab tech job making nothing while working my ass off when I graduate. Or I can go to graduate school to eventually earn the same shitty wage, just only getting to tell other people to do my shit for me one day.

But hopefully I'll get to medical school eventually.

I also do a lot of volunteer EMT/Firefighting stuff. Never thought I'd get the chance to run into a burning building, but now I have the opportunity, just gotta take another class or two and get some more training in since I just started volunteering at the department.

[Shadow]

I will agree with Shadow's sentiment. Beyond what one needs to get by, no amount of $$ is going to make up for being bored/unhappy/miserable for half of your waking hours, every single weekday (and some weekends). Also, I found that having a boring/miserable job is emotionally and physically draining. You may think "oh well I still have the weekend" - but you may be surprised just how much a bad job takes out of you, and how long it takes to recover your energy.

I can personally attest to this fact. I'm a lawyer and I make a lot of money. But I hate my boring, miserable job. I find myself daydreaming constantly about doing other things. Why don't I do something else? I can't afford to! I have the expensive car, the expensive apartment, and the credit that comes along with my salary and employment history (just dropped $2500 on a new clutch and shift kit, and barely made a dent). I can't switch jobs because there are none available and in any event would pay less. Basically I'm stuck here for the time being. I deal with it by resigning myself to the fact that I don't have a choice.

I tried taking some time off from working in law last year. I did desktop computer support and web app programming in a law library. That was worse. I'd rather have my current job than that one. I also tried applying to a couple of government jobs but I didn't make it. And now they have a hiring freeze.

Sometimes in life, you just have to play the hand you're dealt. On the plus side I can afford the car, which is my escape on the weekends. I have my health. I have friends. I have outside-of-work activities. This is as good as it gets for now. Many if not most lawyers hate what they do but the money and lifestyle prove to be too alluring. At least I don't own a condo or go on lots of trips, which is how a lot of lawyers spend their money too soon after graduating school.

No offense, but you did that to yourself. You fell into the same trap that many people fall into--you got yourself a well-paying job and then you had to live the lifestyle that people expect of someone in your position. If you lived below your means, you'd have the freedom to change careers at any time. Actually, you'd have the freedom to do almost anything you want.

I'm not trying to preach; I'm just stating the obvious. It doesn't matter how much money you make if you spend it all or load yourself up with car loans, high mortgages, and credit card debt.

Read this and take it to heart:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business ... 1016.story

[Shadow]

Well I was talking about discharging debt through bankruptcy, although how much of the debt that can be discharged differs according to your particular bankruptcy proceeding. And student loans can never be discharged...

The student loan thing is true, but there are plenty of people working to change that law. My guess is that the law will change back again (if I remember correctly, it changed in the late 1990s) to include student loans in bankruptcy.

[Shadow]

The only "good" debt is no debt. Paying interest just gets you in a deeper hole.

Standard unavoidable debt (house payments, bills, paying credit cards full balance every month) will get you as much credit as you'll ever need.

Think I'm wrong? My 825 credit score says otherwise.

You contradict yourself. No debt and the standard debt that is required to even get you a credit score in the first place are not the same.

You can build credit without incurring debt. My first credit card was an American Express green card. Wait--actually, that's not even a credit card; it requires you to pay off the full balance every month.

When I was 18 years old, I needed some sort of credit card to attend a friend's wedding in Florida. I couldn't rent a car or book a room without one. I applied for a few credit cards, but since I had no credit history at all, nobody would issue me a credit card. That's when I learned about American Express cards. I applied and received my card two week later. I used that card to pay for everything associated with the wedding trip--the airfare, room, rental car, etc... And of course I paid the entire balance the next month, although it was painful at the time. It taught me a valuable lesson though...and to this day I have never once had a balance on any of my credit cards. I simply pay 100% of the balance every month no matter how much I use them. So I don't have credit card debt, I just have what is called "float", meaning I pay later (in full) for stuff I buy and use today.

People may not realize it, but that is the best way to build a good credit rating. All three of my credit scores are over 800, and that's how I did it. Paying your bills on time and in full also builds your credit rating.

[theholycow]

You can build credit without incurring debt. My first credit card was an American Express green card. Wait--actually, that's not even a credit card; it requires you to pay off the full balance every month.

They pay first, you pay later; it's credit. Technically it is distinguished from a revolving "credit card" account where you're allowed to let the debt cost interest over time by calling it a "charge card" but I don't think anybody uses that term anymore. It would be a debit card if you paid first and they paid out of your balance.

For a few years it was better to let some revolving debt stand, not paying it off every month, because creditors wanted to know that they could actually make a profit from charging you interest. I suspect that now, with the economy in the crapper and a whole lot of credit problems, they'd rather see that they'll get paid quickly so paying in full every month (whether required to or not) may indeed be better these days.

[Tups]

I'm quite happy that I managed to get through my studies without taking student loan - at most I could've collected 13,500 euros ($19,100) worth of debt by now. This is mainly due to the fact that I managed to get a cheap apartment (first shared, then studio) owned by the student union - some of my friends got apartments from the private sector and had to take the loan AND work part-time to cover the living costs - and that the school is free. Of course I can't be on the black with government study grant alone, so I balance my expenses with summer jobs and such. Of course I still haven't graduated, but if everything goes according to my plans, I'll get my master's degree next year with zero debt. After that I'll hopefully struggle with the extra 2000 euros I have to spend every month to continue my current low-cost lifestyle... ;)

For some reason I don't really understand the American concept of "credit". Apparently it's kind of opposite from ours - here you have good credit by default as long as you don't fail to pay everything in time, in which case you'll get your name in a certain register that makes your life difficult (they might harvest your kids for organs etc.). I got my credit card (Visa, self-set limit of 1000 euros) simply by asking and showing my study record (>30 % of studies completed), but I don't have to use it to maintain my credit or anything. I've only used it twice to pay some parking because the machine didn't accept the debit side...

[Shadow]

You can build credit without incurring debt. My first credit card was an American Express green card. Wait--actually, that's not even a credit card; it requires you to pay off the full balance every month.

They pay first, you pay later; it's credit. Technically it is distinguished from a revolving "credit card" account where you're allowed to let the debt cost interest over time by calling it a "charge card" but I don't think anybody uses that term anymore. It would be a debit card if you paid first and they paid out of your balance.

For a few years it was better to let some revolving debt stand, not paying it off every month, because creditors wanted to know that they could actually make a profit from charging you interest. I suspect that now, with the economy in the crapper and a whole lot of credit problems, they'd rather see that they'll get paid quickly so paying in full every month (whether required to or not) may indeed be better these days.

Yes, of course it is credit in that sense. Any time you buy something without paying cash (or debiting it directly from your bank account), you are getting credit. The beauty of true credit cards is that you incur no interest debt if you pay your bill in full by the due date. An American Express card has never been considered a credit card because you don't have the option of carrying debt on it beyond the due date.

It's never a good thing to keep credit card debt. Well, I should clarify by saying it is never good for you, although it's good for the credit card companies. Paying credit card interest doesn't build your credit rating any better/faster than paying off 100% of your balance every month. Credit card companies make money every time you use your card, regardless of whether or not you pay off your balance in full. Did you ever wonder why many gas stations have higher prices for people paying with credit cards? Like all merchants, it costs them money when customers use credit cards.

BTW, separate cash/credit gas prices are making a big time comeback in my area. Two years ago, virtually all gas stations charged the same price for cash & credit. Now they all seem to be going back separate pricing.

[Shadow]

For some reason I don't really understand the American concept of "credit". Apparently it's kind of opposite from ours - here you have good credit by default as long as you don't fail to pay everything in time, in which case you'll get your name in a certain register that makes your life difficult (they might harvest your kids for organs etc.). I got my credit card (Visa, self-set limit of 1000 euros) simply by asking and showing my study record (>30 % of studies completed), but I don't have to use it to maintain my credit or anything. I've only used it twice to pay some parking because the machine didn't accept the debit side...

In the United States, your credit rating is earned, not given. Everyone starts out with no credit history at all and we all have build it from nothing. Getting started is the most difficult part because it's not easy to obtain credit when you don't have a proven credit history in the first place. That's why I applied for an American Express green card--it's not a credit card (it's actually a charge card) and it's much easier to get when you don't have credit history. I know a lot of people in the U.S. who did the same thing...

[Tups]

In the United States, your credit rating is earned, not given. Everyone starts out with no credit history at all and we all have build it from nothing.

That's what I thought. We have only two levels of credit rating/score, good or bad, and everyone has a good rating by default. If you fail to pay on time even after notifications, you'll end up with bad credit rating until your non-payment record is cleaned after two to five years depending on what you've done.

Of course you can't get a credit card without steady income, but interestingly students are exempt as they only look at your study record. This has led to fairly interesting situations - my friend, who graduated last spring, couldn't get a credit card because he had only been employed for six months or so despite having 300+ ECTS worth of studies and the master's degree while I only had ~200 when I applied for my card. The bank later agreed that it didn't make any sense and he got the card...