Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans » Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:24 pm

If I had a salesperson imply that I was being ridiculous for asking and requesting a certain thing I'd walk. Sorry dude, if I'm going to pay my hard earned money for a car it's darn well going to have the things that I want. If after searching around I find that what I'm looking for can't be had for a price I'm will to pay, I'll reevaluate.

AWD is a topic about which I've changed my opinions. I've driven front wheel drive vehicles all my life, aside from the Chrysler (rear wheel drive biased AWD), my Blazer (driver selectable 4x4), and my Aerostar (also rear wheel drive biased AWD), and I've gotten along fine. That's not to say that it's always been easy to get places. I've always thought it would be nice to have, even if I can get along without it. However, it was only ever offered in SUVs, CUVs, and trucks for the most part. With the compromised handling characteristics of those vehicles, and the fact that they seem to give drivers an aire of invincibility, winding up in ditches more often during snow storms (at least in Minnesota) due to idiocy, I always thought it was a waste. Also, paying to fuel a vehicle that big and whose capabilities I did not need wasn't something I was interested in.

Then smaller vehicles started being offered with AWD systems. Suddenly it became less wasteful to have a vehicle with AWD. The relative usefulness of each implementation of AWD is a different question altogether. The improved ability to get up and going appeals to me. The fuel economy hit for a smaller car with AWD isn't going to be as great as the hit of going to a vehicle 2 or 3 times larger.

Of course, now the question is whether I (or you) can get what I (or you) want. My latest foray, as you know, has me looking for AWD, manual, sunroof, heated seats. The options are slim. When I inform a dealer that I'm specifically looking for a manual they ask why. I tell them that I just do and don't elaborate. If, when the time comes, I can't find that combination for a price I am willing to pay I'll reevaluate. That's entirely different than "being ridiculous."

It's your money. Spend it on what you want and don't worry about a sales person's quota. There are already several dealerships around me that I've written off because the sales staff are not people I'm willing to work with. In fact, the dealership in my town is part of a chain. If I see something on the lot that I like, I write the stock number down and drive 20 miles to their partner store because I hate them that much.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:36 pm

Teamwork wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:17 am
AHTOXA wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:57 pm
I have to say, after over 90k combined miles, I'm pretty much over the turbocharged motor deal for a DD vehicle. It's just...not worth it to me as a consumer. It's more complex, it's less reliable (in my experience) and while it wasn't costly out of pocket for me, I think it certainly has a high potential to be so down the line when out of warranty.

I appreciate the torque and the decent power delivery modern forced induction smaller motors produce but I am glad to be back in an NA. It's more linear, better off the line and down low and just much less headache. It seems that some manufacturers are still dealing with fuel dilution in the oil (Honda, Ford, others), coolant and oil leaks at the turbos and other related issues such as carbon deposits (granted, some have solved it like Ford with their newer dual-injected Ecoboosts). But overall, it's not for me. I'm willing to give up some power for fewer headaches and reliability concerns.

EDIT: I wasn't so sure at first, but the 4.0 ~280hp/270tq NA motor is just about perfect. Yes, it's old, yes, it's port injected, yes it gets shit fuel economy (same as my half ton Ford did with 100 less HP), but there's no denying its charm with its clutch-driven cooling fan and all. Highly pleased, to be honest.
It's funny I'm pretty much completely sold on turbo charged engines after being very skeptical 3-4 years ago. It's at a point where I pretty much do not want to DD anything that isn't. I don't have the most extensive resume of turbo charged / super charged cars but I still have the GTI which I would consider "run of the mil - sporting" but I've driven the Jetta, Passat, Accord, Civic, and Fusion and have to say I'm probably too addicted. The gas mileage benefits are real as is the usable torque down low. Knocking on wood but I've literally had no issues with my drivetrain and engine on my GTI rounding over 50k on the clock (though the car has had issues). My friend has the basic TSI in Golf format and has over 120k -- only thing he did which isn't routine (or maybe is routine) was intake manifold carbon cleaning. In stock formats I don't see why these cars would run into out of the ordinary issues pre 100k.

Irony curveball: Been taking a longer look in at the Mazda 3 which still has avoided turbos. I feel that most of the professional opinions are very positive on this vehicle- torsion beam and all. First, lets talk about my work scenario 2.5 weeks in now that I've kind of settled in.


Work has been great honestly compared to what I was coming from. I know a lot of you guys last year told me to get up and ditch a bad situation as soon as it was brewing but honestly in this "shaky" economy I was a bit nervous. I was going through a lot at the end of last year and being able to leave a bad penny wasn't a gauranteed win in my mind. I'm glad though of the outcome now and the commute is quite a bit different and much longer for me but I've been surviving. The offer to pull me into Midtown Manhattan was "an offer that couldn't be refused" -- I would've never been able to make this type of money staying on Long Island in the same field, simple as that. My train ticket annually though will come out to being 5k a year though with that being said. As spoken about prior; I do the least amount of driving I've probably ever did since my early college days. My round trip to the train yard and back to my residency is literally just under 16 miles total. It's still a mix of local surburb and main 495 highway driving (albeit 1.5 exits) so I can't drive a total slug but I definitely want to down grade from the GTI.

Yes, it's unbelievable that an American actually wants to downgrade in car title. I just don't feel like the GTI deserves this life and could be enjoyed by someone else. The car sits in a train yard now for 9 hours a day; where it basically bakes in the elements, gets door dings, and barely driven. My wife is never going to learn to drive stick and honestly my main priorities in a car have basically become; remote start, working heat/AC, and ability to baby. My dad's version of a train car (he worked in the city for over 35 years) is a 1990 Ford Taurus Wagon which had no AC/heat, would engine overheat after driving 15 miles (he only lived 5 miles from the train station), and had the famous Ford paint peel of the 80's. I would want to do a little bit better then that haha.

So, I've been all over the place from looking at subcompact, compact, and base level mid sizes. I would even dabble in the used market but I'm not feeling so strongly about it. I just need something that's literally taking the same route everyday and that can do it reliably. I'm probably back into candidacy of leasing as well though if I was going after a car that was under 22k I'd probably just buy it. It's funny though I want it to be nice enough to let people know that I'm still working full time but not nice enough that every door ding hurts my soul. The demographic that gets out of my train station literally are the rudimentary lexus, mercedes, and audi crop-- and I'm looking at Honda Fits from the GTI...

I wonder how much money they are making if they are leasing those and paying for a 405 dollar monthly train. What kind of cars can you lease for 800 a month?
caveat: I read your post and most earlier ones. It not the ones after it; just too much to read for me. You know, this may sound blasphemous but, unless you really want or need a different car, why wouldn’t you consider just keeping the GTI? Either I’m missing something, something wasn’t said (written), or I’m missing something. That said, you may like the Sportwagen, if you want something more family friendly (read: more room, and potentially not Manuel). Eye recommend the AWD variants, but you might be fine with the FWD models down there in sunny LI (yesterday’s snow storm has me worried though).
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:01 pm

Rob, I'm guessing it's more to do with his bride being unable to and uncomfortable learning to drive a manual. An auto just makes it easier to switch off.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:34 pm

tankinbeans wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:01 pm
Rob, I'm guessing it's more to do with his bride being unable to and uncomfortable learning to drive a manual. An auto just makes it easier to switch off.
Gotcha. Forgot about potentially needing to switch cars if he has the kids with him.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:42 am

potownrob wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:34 pm
tankinbeans wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:01 pm
Rob, I'm guessing it's more to do with his bride being unable to and uncomfortable learning to drive a manual. An auto just makes it easier to switch off.
Gotcha. Forgot about potentially needing to switch cars if he has the kids with him.
Trade her in on an Amish model
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and you can keep the GTI!
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:26 pm

The standard airbags on that model are much more useful than any from Takata.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by watkins » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:34 pm

tankinbeans wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:42 am
Watkins wrote:saying nice things about turbos and recommending staying with the Europeans.
Is it safe to say that the formats you're used to are such that the engine itself is enough to motivate the vehicle and the turbo is just a nice add-on, they're not quite so badly stressed as the micro-turbos that are becoming prevalent. With the new Renegade getting a 1.3T and the Explorer offering a 2.3T, I would think those would be pretty stressful applications. CAVEAT: I cop to the fact that I'm no mechanical engineer and may be pulling things out of the chute.
The Renegade is absolute rubbish regardless of the engine. It has exactly no redeeming features. That new engine might actually be its first good feature.

As for micro-turbos: I have a lot of (now ex) Focus ST driver friends. I always have enjoyed commenting on the fact that the ST "big" turbo upgrade is the same size as my stock turbo and my turbo upgrade comes from a Cummins.



Teamwork wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:38 pm
Really the only subcompact cars I'd even consider are essentially the Fit, Accent/Rio, and maybe Toyota Yaris (mazda 2 variant).
The old Yaris was complete trash. The old Mazda 2 is a wonderful, plucky little thing, if a bit lacking on touch surfaces. I absolute love our 2011 and chose to keep it when we bought the Wrangler. Maybe a Mazda-built Toyota will be better than the actual Toyota?
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Teamwork » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:16 pm

tankinbeans wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:01 pm
Rob, I'm guessing it's more to do with his bride being unable to and uncomfortable learning to drive a manual. An auto just makes it easier to switch off.
Correct- I no longer have the luxury of relying on my parents or in law's parents to borrow cars if something unreliable did surface. That is part of the reason why I'm trying to rid myself of the GTI / VW in general-- I don't want to stick around waiting for the next bomb of reliability in what has already been a semi unreliable experience. No reason to take an unnecessary risk outside of warranty at this point.

Yes, I am not willingly giving up manual but more or less vice versa-- if wife needs the car for any reason then she can step in.
The old Yaris was complete trash. The old Mazda 2 is a wonderful, plucky little thing, if a bit lacking on touch surfaces. I absolute love our 2011 and chose to keep it when we bought the Wrangler. Maybe a Mazda-built Toyota will be better than the actual Toyota?
Agreed- would never consider the Yaris of old but the new one is essentially a mazda 2 in Toyota guise. It definitely in last place for me though regardless nearly by default-- lack of rear seat space and trunk (no hatch back configuration) when the competition betters itself in those areas. Can't really just have "good driving dynamics" dictate my decision any longer sadly.

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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:22 pm

If reports are correct the 2020 Yaris, built by Mazda, will also offer a hatchback. I wonder how hard it would be to retrofit Mazda's front clip on. Toyota have completely ruined it with their gross hungry hungry guppy face.

Here's a link: https://www.cars.com/articles/toyotas-y ... 757754750/
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:15 am

eye doughn't quite get wye toyota took a mazda as their own, but it looks nicer than what it replaced, and apparently is a better car overall too. now they just need to steal the mazda 3... :twisted: :shock: 8)
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:49 am

potownrob wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:15 am
eye doughn't quite get wye toyota took a mazda as their own, but it looks nicer than what it replaced, and apparently is a better car overall too. now they just need to steal the mazda 3... :twisted: :shock: 8)
I'm guessing they're thinking that they may as well leverage their partnership and save on development costs. For Mazda it's a no-brainer since they can get some volume and ride on Toyota's coattails. How many people who aren't in the know even realize they're driving a Mazda? I had a guy at the auto show last year who was legitimately shocked that I referred to the Yaris iA as a Mazda2.

I'm curious to see if we'll eventually get a Camry based Mazda6 since they're in bed together. Curious also to know what's going to come out of the Mazda/Toyota plant in Alabama.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:11 am

tankinbeans wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:49 am
I'm guessing they're thinking that they may as well leverage their partnership and save on development costs. For Mazda it's a no-brainer since they can get some volume and ride on Toyota's coattails. How many people who aren't in the know even realize they're driving a Mazda? I had a guy at the auto show last year who was legitimately shocked that I referred to the Yaris iA as a Mazda2.
another car show idiot?? or was this not one of the toyota people??
I'm curious to see if we'll eventually get a Camry based Mazda6 since they're in bed together. Curious also to know what's going to come out of the Mazda/Toyota plant in Alabama.
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test drove a couple of those. look nice, but don't drive like much and too much cheap plastic inside. much prefer the accord, but even that's a bit boring. hopefully, new 6 will be more excite. :o :| :)
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:00 am

Was a Toyota auto show idiot. I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen midsizers from Toyota and Mazda were related somehow, especially since reports of the midsize market's doom are fast and heavy.

Hoping Mazda come to their senses and offer a manual again on the Mazda6, mayhaps with AWD.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:00 am

tankinbeans wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:00 am
Was a Toyota auto show idiot. I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen midsizers from Toyota and Mazda were related somehow, especially since reports of the midsize market's doom are fast and heavy.

Hoping Mazda come to their senses and offer a manual again on the Mazda6, mayhaps with AWD.
yass yassssss!!!! :D
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:49 pm

Mom is looking at possibly trading her Focus because she does the Uber/Lyft thing. I'm steering her to a Fusion/ Escape with the 2.5/6AT as the simplest and most robust option. Steering her away from Nissan and the Hyundai/ Kia twins due to the engine's propensity to self-immolation.

Is there anything I should worry about? I've not heard anything terrible about Ford's 2.5 other than that it's course and agricultural. Mazda/Toyota/Honda are proving a bit expensive.
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