Reversing Up a Hill

Mr_J · Post by **Mr_J** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:38 pm

Hi Guys,

It's been a while since I posted. I'm posting now because I could use some advice. But first, a story:

Yesterday, there was a moderately steep hill and I found some parking space behind this one car facing downwards. I decided to slot in behind that car, only to realize JUST as I did that I drive a stickshift and have no experience at all reversing a car up a hill. I engaged the parking brake, only for the car to begin rolling forward. So then I kept it engaged, but quickly built up some revs and feathered the throttle, which only kept the car still on the hill. I did not sense the car creeping backwards and as a result, had no sense of when to disengage the parking brake. Eventually, a relative was able to help me out of the situation, and it turns out that I did not lift the parking brake handle up far enough so as to fully engage the brake. Being on flat land most of the time, I got into the habit of just pulling that handle until I heard a click, but apparently that is not sufficient for holding a car on the hill.

So, after the party (and after getting made fun of by every single member of my family), I took my car to a hill on a parallel street where the traffic was lighter, and sure enough, I fully engaged the parking brake, put my car in reverse, gave the car some gas and simultaneously let the clutch out part way. The car still did not creep backwards, but when I disengaged the parking brake, sure enough the car reversed up the hill.

Now a couple of questions:

First, it has been in my experience that if I'm trying to go forward up a hill from a standstill, then the car still creeps forward even if the parking brake is engaged, and this creeping forward is an indicator to me that it is alright to disengage the parking brake. However, this creeping did not happen with the parking brake engaged whilst trying to reverse up a hill. Is this because of a torque issue?

Secondly, is the method I used above the best way to reverse my car up a hill? I have read that if you let the clutch out to the friction point, that this will prevent the car from rolling backwards (or forwards) on a hill. But I have always been hesitant to do this because I do not like the idea of my clutch holding the car on the hill. I figure that this would really wear the clutch out. But is it really the case that ONLY just holding the clutch at the friction point will keep the car in place on a hill?

Third, should I next time just find a relatively flat area in which to park my car?

Thanks in advance for any feedback/comments.

Mr_J

scionkid · Post by **scionkid** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:51 pm

1) Your first gear is probably lower than reverse. Lower gear ratio means more multiplication of engine torque.

2) I'd release to the friction point before reving in my car. Release some more before releasing the clutch. You can try to hold the car on a hill, briefly, by releasing to the friction point. The idea is to do it just long enough so you can move your foot from the stop to the go pedal, negating the need for the parking brake. It wears the clutch but not by much if you do it quick enough. And it doesn't work in all vehicles, especially those with a small engines.

3) Practice your foot work instead of avoiding hills. I've // parked my car on a hill steep enough that my mom won't even attempt in an automatic. Either that or walk a couple of blocks in the rain.

Mr_J · Post by **Mr_J** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:56 pm

Thanks for the comments Scionkid.

Just one quck question with regards to (2). Do I initally bring the clutch out to the friction point while on the normal brake, and THEN go from normal brake to accelerator? Or do I go from normal brake to accelerator whilst bringing the clutch out to the friction point?

Thanks again for your feedback.

Mr_J

scionkid · Post by **scionkid** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:25 pm

I like to clutch out before adding gas. But either one works fine as long as your rev doesn't go crazy

Nervous · Post by **Nervous** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:38 pm

I agree, with any kind of incline launch, I like to put the clutch to the friction point while on the footbrake, and THEN proceed to get off the foot brake, let the clutch hold the car for that tiny split second and then get on the accelerator and try to stop slipping the clutch.

Post by **jomotopia** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:12 am

i think your car creeps forward with the hand brake on b/c you are only pulling it one click. i have never driven a car where 1 click was anywhere near sufficient to hold the car still. pull it up till it stops going up.

then when you do a hand brake launch, you're not waiting for the car to move really, you're waiting for it to feel like it wants to move.

practice is key.

Ecmslee · Post by **Ecmslee** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:25 pm

You seem to be treating your handbrake like a digital device---don't. It is not simply on and off. The handbrake is no different from your regular brake in the general mechanics of how brakes work except for the fact that you actuate it with your hand. You can pull up on the brake lever lightly and it in turn will clamp on your wheels lightly.

In my car you'd never hear the ratcheting sound because I always hold in the button when I use my handbrake, only letting go when I remove my hand from the lever. I do this mostly to save wear but another effect that this has is that I can better feel and judge the pressure that I am exerting on the brake. Perhaps you can try this in your own car if you are not already doing so.

Like jomotopia said, practice is key; you drive by feel, not by restricted and exact actions performed like a robot.

kiseki · Post by **kiseki** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 pm

I agree with everything that's been said earlier, but would like to add a little more.

When you're going up the hill, like jomo said, you don't need to make the car roll forward before releasing the handbrake. You can try this on flat land just to get a feel: With the handbrake is engaged, release clutch to the "friction-point" (for lack of a better word) and add a little bit of gas. You can feel the car "want" to lunge forward, w/o the car actually rolling. When you feel that, that's good enough to release the handbrake. Of course, on a hill it'll take more gas before you feel that "lunge".

And to answer your question about the difference in the feel when going forward up a hill versus backing up a hill: In a FWD car, when the handbrake is engaged, it takes the car less effort to pull the car up the hill (forward), versus push the car up the hill (backward). That's why you didn't roll backwards up the hill. It's the same as pulling a box versus pushing a box.

MicroXcorp · Post by **MicroXcorp** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:40 pm

lol dude do you really need to ask such a question? just put your car in neutral and ease out on the brake. you car will slowly slide backward depending on how steep the slop is

note: i only read the topic and have not read the post

Post by **jomotopia** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:59 pm

apparently you didn't even read the title since it says "Reversing Up a Hill"

subzero · Post by **subzero** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:12 pm

jomotopia wrote:apparently you didn't even read the title since it says "Reversing Up a Hill"

NonChalant · Post by **NonChalant** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:38 pm

subzero wrote:
jomotopia wrote:apparently you didn't even read the title since it says "Reversing Up a Hill"

+1

and +1 to everything said. I always yank my brake up till it can't go any further.

MicroXcorp · Post by **MicroXcorp** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:45 pm

Kids, this is what happens when you're high on pcp

RHL · Post by **RHL** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:27 pm

Hey guys, I have this situation where my drive way is on an incline and I like to back my car up in reverse and into my garage. What I do is give it enough gas and let go of the clutch enough so the car would move and feather the clutch on and off to keep the car moving. Now the problem is, am I wearing out the clutch? because there's this smell after i park the car. Is this the smell of burnt clutch? My drive way is very tight, about 3 inches of free space on both side for me to back up and its a relatively long driveway. Is there a better technique I can use for my situation?

Ray
07 Legacy GT

Post by **jomotopia** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:41 pm

RHL wrote:Hey guys, I have this situation where my drive way is on an incline and I like to back my car up in reverse and into my garage. What I do is give it enough gas and let go of the clutch enough so the car would move and feather the clutch on and off to keep the car moving. Now the problem is, am I wearing out the clutch? because there's this smell after i park the car. Is this the smell of burnt clutch? My drive way is very tight, about 3 inches of free space on both side for me to back up and its a relatively long driveway. Is there a better technique I can use for my situation? Ray
07 Legacy GT

well, if you're smelling clutch it's probably not good. what level of revs are you using? this is generally what i recommend and should be ok if done at low revs, but you want to make sure you put the clutch all the way down after you get the momentum so it's not slipping the whole time.

if your driveway is really long you may be able to reverse up most of it with the clutch full engaged and then just start doing the clutch feathering at the very top.

my driveway is pretty steep and fairly long and i wouldn't want to back up it into my garage. i go in forward and back out.

btw welcome to the site and yay Suby! that's 2 noobs with Legacies here lately.