Winter Driving

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tankinbeans
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by tankinbeans » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:51 am

A good deal of my neighbors do the same for each other since our lot plow guys are slow to react. Last year a watermain blew right outside my mom's place. They didn't plow the area above the wound, instead letting 15 inches to build up. Mom high centered and they more or less laughed. We wound up pulling her out with a ratchet strap and an AWD minivan.

I woke this morning with somebody spinning their tires excessively trying to get up the hill.
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by potownrob » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:11 am

tankinbeans wrote:Been dealing with the lazy ass private blow operators. This is what I had to maneuver through this morning.

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tankinbeans wrote:I just realized a Top Gear Top Tip today. Which is to say leave your car in first as long as possible coming from a dead stop; if it's rolling leave it and take advantage of the torque. Also, when plowing through street snow stick to 4th and under again taking advantage of the torque.
looks like your michelins got the job done, despite the folk wisdom you seem to have acquired. :? 8)
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by potownrob » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:23 am

tankinbeans wrote:A good deal of my neighbors do the same for each other since our lot plow guys are slow to react. Last year a watermain blew right outside my mom's place. They didn't plow the area above the wound, instead letting 15 inches to build up. Mom high centered and they more or less laughed. We wound up pulling her out with a ratchet strap and an AWD minivan.

I woke this morning with somebody spinning their tires excessively trying to get up the hill.
wait, you have hills out there?!? :shock: :?: :o
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by IMBoring25 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:01 am

"Despite the folk wisdom" sounds awfully dismissive. I do agree the advice is either too specific or too general depending on how you look at it, but there is a kernel of truth there.

The first premise could be stated as, "Don't shift out of first prematurely when in a situation where energy is lost quickly." Whether due to a steep uphill, gravel, mud, or deep snow, an early 1-2 shift can leave you in a very precarious position, losing the speed you needed to complete the shift before you can complete it and being forced to go back into first or even stop and re-launch.

The second could be stated as, "Stay a gear (or two) lower than you normally would use when in a situation where energy is being bled." A surface that steals energy from you requires you to be able to impart additional energy to the system at the same rate, or you wind up with a similar problem to the first scenario.

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Re: Winter Driving

Post by tankinbeans » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:32 am

Rob, it's not a yuge hill (maybe a little steeper than a regulation wheelchair ramp), but it's certainly enough to hinder progress of a little Aveo driven by somebody who doesn't understand that she's already lost the fight when she starts spinning her wheels.

This is one of those times I'm glad not to be in Duluth.

Thank you IMBORING, that sounds more like what I was going for.
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by Rope-Pusher » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:49 pm

When accelerating from a standing start on a slick surface, it's easier to avoid wheelspin if you start in 2nd gear.
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by theholycow » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:02 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:When accelerating from a standing start on a slick surface, it's easier to avoid wheelspin if you start in 2nd gear.
This is the traditional advice. I've seen it bandied about for my whole life. I just don't get it. In 2nd you have less fine control of power delivery; instead you have to shove more torque into the transmission and once the clutch (or torque converter) begins to grab it's going to spin the tires faster (with less torque to the tires, but either way it's far more torque than is needed to lose traction).

I've posted that before and I think someone explained it in a way that I understood how it could help some people, but I no longer remember. Anyway, I occasionally try it again, and the result is always the opposite of what I want. I don't keep trying because for me it's usually a solution in search of a problem.
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by Rope-Pusher » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:32 pm

Less Torques revailable at the wheels when starting in a higher gear, so easier to avoid wheelspin.
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by Squint » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:13 pm

(I'm alive) What RP said. If you look at it from the physics side, you want to keep the friction so that your wheels don't spin because if they do, the friction point is lower once they are already moving. Yes, you have less precise control because you're in second, but less torque means that it's less force being applied that could break your friction with the ground.
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by theholycow » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:24 pm

Yeah, none of that is news to me (hence why I said "with less torque to the tires, but either way it's far more torque than is needed to lose traction"). I guess maybe it can be useful if you have a gutless wonder with no torque, where cutting available torque by that much is enough to make the difference.

When you're putting excess torque to the ground in either gear just the same, then all you do with 2nd is spin the tire faster...and still, that fine control of the throttle and of torque delivery is much better in 1st. I guess it's just different strokes for different folks.
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by Squint » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:29 pm

theholycow wrote:Yeah, none of that is news to me (hence why I said "with less torque to the tires, but either way it's far more torque than is needed to lose traction"). I guess maybe it can be useful if you have a gutless wonder with no torque, where cutting available torque by that much is enough to make the difference.

When you're putting excess torque to the ground in either gear just the same, then all you do with 2nd is spin the tire faster...and still, that fine control of the throttle and of torque delivery is much better in 1st. I guess it's just different strokes for different folks.
Yeah, obviously didn't mean you didn't know. Just threw out explanation from a different angle.

When the advice that everyone hears is meant for everyone...

Perhaps they aren't the ones used to feathering the throttle and over-analyzing everything we do while driving. I would say that most of us on here are driving enthusiasts to at least a certain extent - we're on here after all.

(edited because typos)
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by theholycow » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:32 pm

Squint wrote:
theholycow wrote:Perhaps they aren't the ones used to feathering the throttle and over-analyzing everything we do while driving. I would say that most of us on here are driving enthusiasts to at least a certain extent - we're on here after all.
That might explain it. Could be a similar situation to the generic advice for saving gas by being light on the go-pedal...sure, that's one easy way that doesn't require thought/study/practice, but there are more effective techniques that sometimes involve heavy throttle.
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Re: Winter Driving

Post by Squint » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:36 pm

theholycow wrote:That might explain it. Could be a similar situation to the generic advice for saving gas by being light on the go-pedal...sure, that's one easy way that doesn't require thought/study/practice, but there are more effective techniques that sometimes involve heavy throttle.
You mean the Prius drivers around town that floor it from stoplights could be actually saving gas?! :lol: :lol:
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