OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

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LOVEDAMANUAL
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OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by LOVEDAMANUAL » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:06 am

I read here that friction zone or better yet catch point changes with variables such as amount of gas applied..passenger weight etc. So heres the question scenario.

Taking off from a stop with gas method. Rev and hold engine speed at lets say 2500 rpms for...2 complete seconds(1 mississipi 2 mississippi)(or what ever rpm ur compfortable holding steady for 2 seconds).

Then just release the clutch as slow or as fast as need be depending on traffic.

Wouldnt the 2500 rpms applied before clutch release change the catch point making it further out or better yet change the time it takes to sync up fully?....therefore making the clutch wear minimal or even better than a no gas launch?

Please I need opinions cause in korea where most vehicles are stick or motorcycle I notice they all rev pretty hard for at least 2 seconds. Thanks in advance.

LOVEDAMANUAL
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by LOVEDAMANUAL » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:14 am

Id like to add that I do this cause I think no gas method is actually more wear on your clutch and even your axles(makes for a loose feeling car or bike). Where as with a gas heavy method, It gently accelerates your car wo strain. How bad or good is this.

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potownrob
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by potownrob » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:20 am

I don't consider myself a pro, but I think I can give you some insights that might help you. I have two main things to point out. One is that I wouldn't think of the clutch engagement as one point or various possible points in the clutch pedal travel. I think it's better to think of it as a clutch engagement zone that (usually!!) covers more than one or a few points in the clutch pedal travel. Along that same vein, it's probably not practical to think of the engagement zone or point(s) as variable, depending on how much gas you add, etc. in fact, other than learning where the clutch starts to grab and figuring out that you should not just drop the clutch (I.e. let it out quickly) once you reach that point, you should not obsess over this engagement zone, and you will master it or at least get much better at handling it with time and practice. The other main point I wanted to make was that launching at 2000+ rpms is totally unnecessary and at least in my experience something only new standard shifters or race car drivers (and wannabe race car drivers) do. Either way, it shows an ignorance or apathy about driving a manual. You should strive to get your launches down to under 1500 rpms, and I doubt anyone who actually makes an effort to launch at lower rpms (assuming their clutch and gearbox are in decent shape) fails to learn to do so. Either way, you're on your way to standardshifting success, whether you realize it or not.
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potownrob
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by potownrob » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:25 am

LOVEDAMANUAL wrote:Id like to add that I do this cause I think no gas method is actually more wear on your clutch and even your axles(makes for a loose feeling car or bike). Where as with a gas heavy method, It gently accelerates your car wo strain. How bad or good is this.
think you got this backwards from what I understand; engaging the clutch slowly without adding gas usually produces much less wear on the clutch than adding a lot of gas and engaging the clutch more quickly. I'm sure others will chime in with the more technical explanations of why this is true.

Edit: forgot to mention that letting out the clutch quickly while adding a lot of gas WILL produce more wear on the axles and other driveline parts than using little or no gas.
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Rope-Pusher
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by Rope-Pusher » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:18 am

potownrob wrote:
LOVEDAMANUAL wrote:Id like to add that I do this cause I think no gas method is actually more wear on your clutch and even your axles(makes for a loose feeling car or bike). Where as with a gas heavy method, It gently accelerates your car wo strain. How bad or good is this.
think you got this backwards from what I understand; engaging the clutch slowly without adding gas usually produces much less wear on the clutch than adding a lot of gas and engaging the clutch more quickly. I'm sure others will chime in with the more technical explanations of why this is true.

Edit: forgot to mention that letting out the clutch quickly while adding a lot of gas WILL produce more wear on the axles and other driveline parts than using little or no gas.
++
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potownrob
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by potownrob » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:07 am

Rope-Pusher wrote:
potownrob wrote:
LOVEDAMANUAL wrote:Id like to add that I do this cause I think no gas method is actually more wear on your clutch and even your axles(makes for a loose feeling car or bike). Where as with a gas heavy method, It gently accelerates your car wo strain. How bad or good is this.
think you got this backwards from what I understand; engaging the clutch slowly without adding gas usually produces much less wear on the clutch than adding a lot of gas and engaging the clutch more quickly. I'm sure others will chime in with the more technical explanations of why this is true.

Edit: forgot to mention that letting out the clutch quickly while adding a lot of gas WILL produce more wear on the axles and other driveline parts than using little or no gas.
++
:mrgreen:
I didn't TOTALLY sleep through comp sci class 8)
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IMBoring25
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by IMBoring25 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:09 am

We tend to say clutch wear paranoia is overblown but rev-and-hold to 2500 RPM for multiple seconds is WAY too much. It's how complete neophytes who are terrified of stalling drive and quite damaging if done more than occasionally.

Read up on manuals at http://www.howstuffworks.com for an understanding of what the machinery is doing. That should be more instructive in understanding not just THAT low RPM and short duration are desirable conditions for launches that are easy on the equipment but WHY.

Rope-Pusher
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by Rope-Pusher » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:28 am

One (or two) might think about what it means to slip the clutch at a certain engine rpm with regard to the vehicle speeds associated with this.

In my particular vehicle, 1st gear drives the vehicle at 6.2 miles per hour at 1000 engine rpm.

If I slip the clutch at 1,500 rpm when I launch from a standing start, I am applying energy through that slipping clutch to accelerate the vehicle to 9.3 miles per hour.

Slipping the clutch at 2,500 rpm means that I am applying energy through that slipping clutch to accelerate the vehicle to 15.4 miles per hour.

If one of us were, how you say, French, oui could argue whezzer zee acceleration rayit was hi-air or note, but eat stans to raisin that mower ainergee ees rayquirherd to bree-ing zee vehicle to zee hi-air speed. Ainergee ovair a peereeode of tyem ees poewear, zoe eef yui ware sleeping zee clush for zee sem amount of tyem, the clush, she would becomb, how you say, hoetair?
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LOVEDAMANUAL
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by LOVEDAMANUAL » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:42 am

Sounds good guys ill aim for a blip and then clutch from now on. Instead of 2500.

LOVEDAMANUAL
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by LOVEDAMANUAL » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:45 am

Oh and when i engage the clutch at 2500 rpms i never continued to add power but just released the clutch . i never add power while engaging .. If anything i lessen the throttle while clutching.

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potownrob
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by potownrob » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:46 am

LOVEDAMANUAL wrote:Sounds good guys ill aim for a blip and then clutch from now on. Instead of 2500.
not sure if the blip vs holding down gas is necessary; just try not going above 1500 rpms while launching.
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potownrob
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Re: OKAY GOOD QUESTION HERE FOLKS NEED PRO HELP

Post by potownrob » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:47 am

LOVEDAMANUAL wrote:Oh and when i engage the clutch at 2500 rpms i never continued to add power but just released the clutch . i never add power while engaging .. If anything i lessen the throttle while clutching.
that's a relief, but there's no reason to have the gas up to 2500 rpms in the first place.
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