Causal Launching-Newish Driver

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MidnightInGotham
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Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by MidnightInGotham » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:01 pm

So I've had my car for about a month and a half and My upshifts are getting good, downshifts and rev matching are good, and not stalling too often, but my starts are very inconsistent.

Sometimes it's super smooth, sometimes I get a single buck, other times a big shaky. I am mostly worried that I'm slipping the clutch too long and/or not giving enough gas.

I get my foot out just before the biting point quickly, then start to see-saw the gas and clutch (maybe around 1.5k rpm?) with a slight pause on the way out. I would guess I am doing this in about 2ish seconds, maybe 3? Any tips on this would be greatly appreciated. Also any tips to improve consistency would be great.

I also am looking for a video that shows footwork for a good smooth, but not clutch abusive start.

I just want to develope good habits to keep my clutch life to the maximum.

Ps the car is a 2016 GTI
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Teamwork
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by Teamwork » Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:57 pm

I definitely do a fairly exaggerated pause in order to get a smooth start in the same car. I found that if I lifted off and out of the friction point too quick doing a "see saw" that it would cause the car to bounce/buck. The only times I really botch the launch in 1st gear is if I'm too quick lifting off the clutch (where I'll become anxious perhaps) or if I don't balance the throttle well. I say balance the 'throttle well' in terms of having the rev's set high and dropping. 1.5k rpm is a pretty safe number I'd say but for "casual launches" even I'd most likely stay right above idle rpm but just make sure I'm steady about it. If I have to think about it consciously though I get to the friction point > pause momentarily while setting the rpms > and progressively lift off while adding more throttle. Can't say I'm 100% perfect every time but I'm typically 75-80% in my humble opinion. After a "jerky/bad launch" I really make a conscious effort to identify where I went wrong and to improve it the next direct time I have to start from a stop. 90% of the time if I bucked or jerked in 1st it's because I wasn't slipping the clutch enough or lifted off too quick.

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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by MidnightInGotham » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:39 am

On another note, I've read that you can feel the clutch and flywheel sync up through the transition which I have definitely felt at which point I just let off the clutch entirely. Is this something you should shoot for and thus keep the clutch engaged until You feel that?


Also I general what is a better way to get moving, lower revs and slower clutch release or higher revs and faster release?
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tankinbeans
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by tankinbeans » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:30 am

That last is a big "it depends." Poodling around the city would probably be slow and steady wins the race, but getting on the motorway would be high and fast.
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by Teamwork » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:29 am

MidnightInGotham wrote:On another note, I've read that you can feel the clutch and flywheel sync up through the transition which I have definitely felt at which point I just let off the clutch entirely. Is this something you should shoot for and thus keep the clutch engaged until You feel that?


Also I general what is a better way to get moving, lower revs and slower clutch release or higher revs and faster release?
There is feeling involved where you can sense that it's sync'ed up completely but (and I'm probably not the best judge) I find the clutch pedal in this GTI to be very light, fairly soft, and vague overall. Sometimes depending on my foot wear I can definitely feel when it's fully engaged but other times and most of the time I'm truly basing this off of muscle memory and process memory. I'm not the best judge because I don't have elaborate clutch usage experience in various cars but look on the vortex and find that the common traits people mention is "light/soft/vague". I definitely rather it be light though especially now for how many times I have to shuffle 1st and 2nd gear on a morning, heavy traffic commute.
Also I general what is a better way to get moving, lower revs and slower clutch release or higher revs and faster release?
I typically almost ALWAYS do lower revs and a slower clutch release but I am shooting for smoothness. To put it in perspective I live in NY where patience is not on anyone's priority list. I usually use this example of ideals for common traffic situations: If I'm first in que for a light that's red I will constantly watch for the cross traffic pattern if possible or try and guestimate the time before I have to start getting ready for 1st gear launching. If I can see the cross pattern turning yellow for the adjacent way I will start getting ready to engage 1st gear so I can have a head start in essence. If I have no way of viewing the cross pattern I will use a little more revs (still not that much all things considered on level ground probably like 1.5k-1.6k max). If I'm behind a cars in que though I really kind of hope for this... unless the guy in front of you has a high powered car or is a teenage male (or both) most likely they are going to be flooring it from the point the light turns green. They might not even be able too also if grandma is first in que- so in this instance I would use very low revs from above idle and just take my time with a smooth engagement into 1st. Really no pressure either because it's not like you can go any faster so no anxiety really required. You're moving at the pace of traffic...

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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by MidnightInGotham » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:49 pm

Teamwork wrote:
MidnightInGotham wrote:On another note, I've read that you can feel the clutch and flywheel sync up through the transition which I have definitely felt at which point I just let off the clutch entirely. Is this something you should shoot for and thus keep the clutch engaged until You feel that?


Also I general what is a better way to get moving, lower revs and slower clutch release or higher revs and faster release?
There is feeling involved where you can sense that it's sync'ed up completely but (and I'm probably not the best judge) I find the clutch pedal in this GTI to be very light, fairly soft, and vague overall. Sometimes depending on my foot wear I can definitely feel when it's fully engaged but other times and most of the time I'm truly basing this off of muscle memory and process memory. I'm not the best judge because I don't have elaborate clutch usage experience in various cars but look on the vortex and find that the common traits people mention is "light/soft/vague". I definitely rather it be light though especially now for how many times I have to shuffle 1st and 2nd gear on a morning, heavy traffic commute.
Also I general what is a better way to get moving, lower revs and slower clutch release or higher revs and faster release?
I typically almost ALWAYS do lower revs and a slower clutch release but I am shooting for smoothness. To put it in perspective I live in NY where patience is not on anyone's priority list. I usually use this example of ideals for common traffic situations: If I'm first in que for a light that's red I will constantly watch for the cross traffic pattern if possible or try and guestimate the time before I have to start getting ready for 1st gear launching. If I can see the cross pattern turning yellow for the adjacent way I will start getting ready to engage 1st gear so I can have a head start in essence. If I have no way of viewing the cross pattern I will use a little more revs (still not that much all things considered on level ground probably like 1.5k-1.6k max). If I'm behind a cars in que though I really kind of hope for this... unless the guy in front of you has a high powered car or is a teenage male (or both) most likely they are going to be flooring it from the point the light turns green. They might not even be able too also if grandma is first in que- so in this instance I would use very low revs from above idle and just take my time with a smooth engagement into 1st. Really no pressure either because it's not like you can go any faster so no anxiety really required. You're moving at the pace of traffic...
Does the low and slow cause more clutch wear than higher and faster? And how long do you think you take to fully release the clutch? Would you be willing to put up a video of the footwork?
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by Teamwork » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:32 pm

MidnightInGotham wrote: Does the low and slow cause more clutch wear than higher and faster? And how long do you think you take to fully release the clutch? Would you be willing to put up a video of the footwork?
I'm surprised no one else is touching up on this but I'll try and answer these the best I can and to my abilities!
Does the low and slow cause more clutch wear than higher and faster?
I mean everything is relative to obviously how slow you're releasing (you're not riding the friction point for a city block) or how high you're reving (you're not popping the clutch at 5k) BUT I would generally assume that low and slow does not cause more clutch wear generally then higher and faster. I mean in theory think about it like this... you're going through the friction point in both scenarios, the clutch is made to slip, it has to be slightly engaged at points... do you want to run higher revs through it or lower revs? Take this as circumstantial though for sure... whenever I can leisurely, take my time off the line I do it but if that light turns green and the next wave of traffic is speeding up behind me with no sights of stopping then of course I am going to rev higher to get a faster launch.
And how long do you think you take to fully release the clutch?
If I had to think about it consciously I'd say the whole ordeal is over in 4 seconds total? Again, I lower the clutch into the friction point while adding gas simultaneously, I pause with limited/no movement when I get there and feel things "hooking up", and then I gauge traffic ahead of me and any variables and start to progressively/slowly release the clutch fully while adding more throttle. The whole see-saw/pendulum concept kind of threw me off when I first started because yeah it emphasizes a delicate balance needs to be at play but it caused me to believe that I could just progressively let off the clutch the entire way/time. I think that pause is really key...
Would you be willing to put up a video of the footwork?
I would be willing for sure to help anyone but I don't have quality video equipment or mounts in able to get a good look in. :(

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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by MidnightInGotham » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:39 pm

And how long do you think you take to fully release the clutch?
If I had to think about it consciously I'd say the whole ordeal is over in 4 seconds total? Again, I lower the clutch into the friction point while adding gas simultaneously, I pause with limited/no movement when I get there and feel things "hooking up", and then I gauge traffic ahead of me and any variables and start to progressively/slowly release the clutch fully while adding more throttle. The whole see-saw/pendulum concept kind of threw me off when I first started because yeah it emphasizes a delicate balance needs to be at play but it caused me to believe that I could just progressively let off the clutch the entire way/time. I think that pause is really key...


When I have done this nice and slow, I found it to be very smooth and feels good, and my only concern was extra clutch wear. But glad to hear I'm not too far off base.
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by tankinbeans » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:30 pm

4 seconds, or at least 4 counts, seems about right to me. Sometimes I slip a bit more while in traffic. One thing I've picked up around these forums is to use my nose; if I smell nothing amiss, nothing is likely amiss. Burning clutch is very noticeable and very nauseating.
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by MidnightInGotham » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:39 pm

tankinbeans wrote:4 seconds, or at least 4 counts, seems about right to me. Sometimes I slip a bit more while in traffic. One thing I've picked up around these forums is to use my nose; if I smell nothing amiss, nothing is likely amiss. Burning clutch is very noticeable and very nauseating.
This is something else I don't know about. I don't really know what clutch smells like. I've read cooked brakes but idk what that smells like either. I always am sniffing to see if I am burning the clutch, but genuinely don't know what it would smell like. Also how long does the smell last?
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by tankinbeans » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:47 pm

The closest approximation I can think of would be burnt rubber after somebody does donuts. I don't think there is a set distance; suffice it to to say that the last time I burnt one -- starting in 3rd by mistake with 600 pounds of passenger in a Corolla (lots of slipping needed) -- there was still a pretty noticeable odour eminating ftom the bellhousing 4 miles later.
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by Teamwork » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:56 pm

and my only concern was extra clutch wear.
But I mean... you're going to have to slip 1st gear- and do it often. A clutch is a wear and tear item and unless you are going to the extreme spectrum of riding in the friction point for multiple blocks or doing burn outs and dropping the clutch at high rpm's I wouldn't really be too concerned. As tankin said the car will let you know if you're abusing it... it's not going to just drop out of the bottom of the car on fire one day, randomly.
4 seconds, or at least 4 counts, seems about right to me. Sometimes I slip a bit more while in traffic.
Yeah kind of a rough estimate if I had to think about it but everything is circumstantial. '4 seconds' is hardly a set in stone rule- I wouldn't fully release the clutch after slipping it for 4 seconds when traffic in front of me came to a complete stop. If I'm setting the revs higher then I would release the clutch a little quicker also...
I don't really know what clutch smells like.
But you will if you were burning it...

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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by MidnightInGotham » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:36 pm

Is it safe to safe to say I will know if/when I am burning the clutch and will it be very apparent even though I don't know what the smell is like?
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by tankinbeans » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:10 am

MidnightInGotham wrote:Is it safe to safe to say I will know if/when I am burning the clutch and will it be very apparent even though I don't know what the smell is like?
You will definitely know. I didn't know what it smelled like the first time it happened to me, but I did afterwards.
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Re: Causal Launching-Newish Driver

Post by Rope-Pusher » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:22 pm

tankinbeans wrote:
MidnightInGotham wrote:Is it safe to safe to say I will know if/when I am burning the clutch and will it be very apparent even though I don't know what the smell is like?
You will definitely know. I didn't know what it smelled like the first time it happened to me, but I did afterwards.
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