rev-matching question

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potownrob
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Re: rev-matching question

Post by potownrob » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:53 am

Ewilon1988 wrote:That's good to hear. I'm gonna keep practicing. Do you guys do a quick jab
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or just apply some pressure?
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whatever gets the job done 8)

on a more serious note, i recommend the jab, or otherwise letting up on the gas before letting up on the clutch, if you catch my drift.

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Last edited by potownrob on Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Ewilon1988 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:56 am

Lmao good reply. Made for a good chuckle

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by potownrob » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:58 am

Ewilon1988 wrote:Lmao good reply. Made for a good chuckle
re-read it - edited for accuracy :twisted:
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Ewilon1988 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:22 am

So if I go with pressure just make sure that my foot is all the way off the gas before releasing the clutch. Seems the jab is probably the best way to go so I don't accidentally keep applying unneeded throttle

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by potownrob » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:28 am

Ewilon1988 wrote:So if I go with pressure just make sure that my foot is all the way off the gas before releasing the clutch. Seems the jab is probably the best way to go so I don't accidentally keep applying unneeded throttle
the reasoning for this is you don't want to hold the gas down while engaging the clutch in gear, in case you got the revs wrong. if you hold the gas down, the clutch won't be able to pull the engine speed down if you over-revved. by not being on the gas when you let the clutch out, you allow the clutch to correct the engine speed when you re-engage it (let it out).
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Ewilon1988 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:31 am

Makes sense. Thanks for all the help. Going to keep practicing

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by IMBoring25 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:45 am

That's actually a matter of opinion. I set and leave the throttle for single-clutch rev matches. I do jab for the double-clutch portion when doing a double-clutched shift.

The ideal is to have the engine neither accelerating nor braking the car when the clutch is moving and the transmission is in gear. You can do this either by getting the throttle position right, the timing right, or both. Unless you're downshifting at very low RPM or have a vehicle afflicted with severe rev hang issues, being completely off the throttle when you disengage the clutch is probably inappropriate.

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by theholycow » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:12 pm

Ewilon1988 wrote:So did a bit of practice Rev Matching on my way to work just now and let's just say that that was a fun experience. I over revved 6th to 5th. 5th to 4th wasn't too terrible(music was too loud so couldn't hear). And turning into my work I braked from 4th gear down to about 25 miles per hour and downshifted to 2nd and it didn't seem to be too far off. Honestly I know it's going to take practice, but blipping feels unnatural lol. My brother says he feathers his when he rev matches(2013 370z), but I wasn't sure if that's good or not to do
How much rev-matching could you need to do from 6th to 5th, or even 5th to 4th?

On sequential downshifts I don't always rev-match. They tend to be pretty close already anyway. I rev-match more dependably for block shifts (where one or more gears are skipped; so, for example, 5th to 2nd).
Ewilon1988 wrote:Oh great, sounds like it's either get it perfect or risk ruining clutch and or other parts.
Nah, he was describing the nature of the wear (or damage), not the severity or risk level.
Ewilon1988 wrote:I figured being off by a few hundred couldn't be that terrible for it. I'm just nervous about myself taking awhile to get used to it and overshooting by a lot for awhile.
A few hundred is fine. Closer is better. Plenty of people never learn about rev-matching and drive their whole lives without replacing a clutch.
Ewilon1988 wrote:That's good to hear. I'm gonna keep practicing. Do you guys do a quick jab of the throttle or just apply some pressure?
I find steady throttle to be more graceful, but my 2008 VW's rev hang/throttle lag got me in the habit of a quick jab and I haven't been able to lose that habit even though it's been 100,000 miles (and almost 5 years) since I've driven that car.
potownrob wrote:the reasoning for this is you don't want to hold the gas down while engaging the clutch in gear, in case you got the revs wrong. if you hold the gas down, the clutch won't be able to pull the engine speed down if you over-revved. by not being on the gas when you let the clutch out, you allow the clutch to correct the engine speed when you re-engage it (let it out).
It's a barely more work for the clutch to do. Keep in mind that the amount of torque required (and therefore generated) to free-rev the engine to your target RPM is a tiny fraction of what it takes to drive the car at that (or any) RPM, barely anything more than idle. For a steady-throttle rev-match you're barely touching the accelerator pedal, unlike the deep jab you do for a stab-and-release; it's probably less energy dissipation than you'd have at cold high idle (mainly older cars, of course) when you execute a shift to a lower RPM and the computer opens the IAC.
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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Ewilon1988 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:33 pm

I think I'm going to work on the steady throttle approach. It just feels more natural.

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Teamwork » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:10 pm

Ewilon1988 wrote:I think I'm going to work on the steady throttle approach. It just feels more natural.
It actually feels less natural to me but I actually have to incorporate it because of inconsistencies in pedal feel for free to matching higher revs. Whenever I'm going down single gears I'll just give a stab and time it correctly with muscle memory working it's magic. If you're in OD gears say going 6th to 5th or even 5th to 4th just remember it doesn't require a lot- literally just a few hundred. If you're skipping down gears you'll most likely want to at least try and get the revs close to where they should be- even if you miss by few hundred. The downshift for me personally from 3rd to 2nd always seemed to require more effort and more "preciseness" in order to smoothly transition. I usually feather the throttle to match rev's when I have to make a 90 degree turn coming from a higher rate of speed and higher gear. For instance, I'll be in 5th gear spinning between 40-45 mph... I'll brake in that gear to about 16-20 mph (if I'm being enthusiastic) and get the revs to where they have to be at the speed- usually requiring me to either blip really hard or to feather the throttle to the correct range. If I'm taking caution and the turn fairly slow at say 10-14 mph though it really only requires a short blip to get the revs off of idle and it's smooth as butter.

The only time I don't use the throttle at all to match my revs is when I am slowing down to an expected stop and traffic resumes and I haven't stopped completely. Typically, I'll take the "highest possible gear" at the speed I'm around and resume from a low rpm range without blipping at all (even though sometimes I do it- sometimes I don't).

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Ewilon1988 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:16 pm

Teamwork wrote:
Ewilon1988 wrote:I think I'm going to work on the steady throttle approach. It just feels more natural.
It actually feels less natural to me but I actually have to incorporate it because of inconsistencies in pedal feel for free to matching higher revs. Whenever I'm going down single gears I'll just give a stab and time it correctly with muscle memory working it's magic. If you're in OD gears say going 6th to 5th or even 5th to 4th just remember it doesn't require a lot- literally just a few hundred. If you're skipping down gears you'll most likely want to at least try and get the revs close to where they should be- even if you miss by few hundred. The downshift for me personally from 3rd to 2nd always seemed to require more effort and more "preciseness" in order to smoothly transition. I usually feather the throttle to match rev's when I have to make a 90 degree turn coming from a higher rate of speed and higher gear. For instance, I'll be in 5th gear spinning between 40-45 mph... I'll brake in that gear to about 16-20 mph (if I'm being enthusiastic) and get the revs to where they have to be at the speed- usually requiring me to either blip really hard or to feather the throttle to the correct range. If I'm taking caution and the turn fairly slow at say 10-14 mph though it really only requires a short blip to get the revs off of idle and it's as butter.

The only time I don't use the throttle at all to match my revs is when I am slowing down to an expected stop and traffic resumes and I haven't stopped completely. Typically, I'll take the "highest possible gear" at the speed I'm around and resume from a low rpm range without blipping at all (even though sometimes I do it- sometimes I don't).
I'm up for anything that can help. I'm not saying I'm opposed to blipping, just felt unnatural. Idk what the hell im going to do lol. I'm gonna keep practicing blipping I guess. That seems to be what everyone does and/or recommends. I've been work overnights until 4am so haven't had much time to practice

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Teamwork » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:38 pm

Ewilon1988 wrote:I'm up for anything that can help. I'm not saying I'm opposed to blipping, just felt unnatural. Idk what the hell im going to do lol. I'm gonna keep practicing blipping I guess. That seems to be what everyone does and/or recommends. I've been work overnights until 4am so haven't had much time to practice
I don't want to discourage you either way- just find out what works for you. I'm going onto 8 months with my vehicle and I'm a little embarrassed to state that I think I've finally got most things down where I don't feel like I have to think about it so much. The first month and a half I had the luxury of the end of my lease car so I really only practiced late at night during the week and early mornings on the weekend when I wouldn't have the opportunity to kill anyone and if I killed my car and embarrassed my family not too many people would know. I used to go out between the hours of like 2-3 am and really simulate "day time scenarios" if there was a lot of traffic and such. It definitely takes time to get a hang of and from what I've read and experienced with your car even some 'experts' have said it's harder to drive smoothly. I definitely was really hung up in the end for me between the GTI, WRX, and ST.

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Ewilon1988 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:59 pm

Yeah I read the same thing about the wrx after I bought it so that definitely made me feel a little better. This is the first manual I've owned and needless to say being 3.5 months in I'm already light years ahead of where I was in December when I purchased the car.

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Re: rev-matching question

Post by theholycow » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:59 pm

Teamwork wrote:I don't want to discourage you either way- just find out what works for you.
This. We can recommend what we expect to work for you but the best thing you can do is try everything, including what we say won't work (except when we say it's a horrible idea that will break your car and eat your children), to see what works best for you.
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Re: rev-matching question

Post by Ewilon1988 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:04 pm

theholycow wrote:
Teamwork wrote:I don't want to discourage you either way- just find out what works for you.
This. We can recommend what we expect to work for you but the best thing you can do is try everything, including what we say won't work (except when we say it's a horrible idea that will break your car and eat your children), to see what works best for you.
Oh I get that. I practiced blipping today and it wasn't as bad as last night. You did mention earlier that you don't really blip when going down a single gear. What do you do if you are?

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