New manual driver, have some questions

[amantonas]

I just got my first car with a manual transmission (2006 mazda 3 5-spd) and I am moving it around ok, I just have a few questions/concerns you guys might be able to help me with.

1. Is there any way I can make my 1 to 2 shifts smoother? I usually just wind first gear to 3000 to 3500 and and put it in second gear and give it a little gas, but it's almost 100% of the time jerky. I know that's not really a lot of info but maybe someone knows what I'm dealing with.

2. When I'm coming to a stop, I always try to stick it in first gear before I stop, but it's really hard to get it into first if I'm going above 20 miles an hour. Is there something wrong with this or is this just how it is, and I should wait until I'm below 20 mph to put it in first

3. If I'm crusing down the highway and I need to go up a steep hill at about 65 or 70 mph, I'll downshift into fourth and go up the hill, then hold the clutch in until I get to the bottom of the hill, and THEN shift it into fifth and keep going. But sometimes, if I'm going fast enough, it'll grind when I have the clutch IN and put the shifter into 5th. I don't know if that's because I shouldn't shift between neutral and 5th at that speed, or because one of my syncros are bad?

[ClutchFork]

WELCOME TO STANDARD SHIFTING!

1. Try 1-2 shift at a lower rpm until you get better?
2. Try downshifting into first at 10 or 15 mph instead.
3. Don't know about the grind, syncro may be a bit notchy, try moving lever towards 5th but wait for the final shove, which may give syncro more time to work. Also I'd leave the clutch engaged going down the hill. Engine will provide braking in 4th and you'll have a more controlled descent. Then can up-shift as necessary at the bottom. Otherwise if your intent is to have it increase speed going down the hill, then up-shift to 5th once you crest the hill so you are in 5th all the way down the hill.

[theholycow]

1. What else have you tried? It's different for each person/car. I tend to have the best results if I just barely get the car moving in 1st and then shift into 2nd almost immediately. Consider also accepting some shift shock; you're in a moving vehicle, changing gears, you're gonna feel something...if you wanted to be boring you'd be driving an automatic.

2. You shouldn't try to shift into 1st until you're almost at a stop, or completely stopped. That's a lot to ask of your 1st synchro. If you really want to shift into 1st at a higher speed you should double clutch. (Search for how to double clutch.)

3. I wouldn't read too much into it. Try putting it in neutral instead of standing on the clutch pedal, shifting slower (put less pressure on the shifter), shifting to 5th earlier, or putting it in a gear and getting off the clutch pedal (if it's a long hill then this option may save fuel by engaging DFCO (Search for DFCO)). Your synchro may be a little lame or you may be shifting too fast for it.

I can't imagine that it's necessary to downshift to 4th at 65mph to get up a hill in your car...are you sure you need to use 4th?

[tankinbeans]

Welcome to the forum.

I only shift down to 2nd at maximum of coming to a stop, and even then only when I think the light might change. You should have more than enough power if the light changes to get out of dodge.

If you're having trouble getting a smooth 2nd gear shift try waiting a fraction of a second before releasing the clutch. That should help, otherwise just practice until you're comfortable.

Can't really comment on your hill problems though because I typically have more than enough grunt to make it up in fifth.

Keep asking questions. We're all here to help. Also, don't over-think what you're doing. That's when things get really nasty.

[ClutchDisc]

Welcome to Standard Shift!

1. My 1-2 shift is jerky a lot of the time, I actually like it that way. Try shifting at a lower rpm maybe?

2. I would try waiting to put it in first until 10 mph or so. My truck does the same thing, but works well at 10 mph.

3. I would think your car has enough power to make it up the hill in fifth, I probably wouldn't downshift mine unless I was doing 55-60 mph. But if you need to downshift, once you get over the hill I would stay in gear. You will have a lot more control over your car, and it will actually use less gas. If you want to speed up down the hill, then simply put your car in fifth.

Hope that helps, and once again welcome to the world of standardshifting!

[ClutchFork]

... and I need to go up a steep hill at about 65 or 70 mph...

How steep? Perhaps 4th is a good gear for going up it.

[IMBoring25]

1) You have to ask yourself when is it jerking and how is it jerking. Smooth shifting is about rolling smoothly out of the throttle, putting the clutch in while the engine is neither accelerating nor braking the vehicle, shifting, and then letting the clutch out while the engine is neither accelerating nor braking the vehicle. Some people emphasize timing for the last one, but that is hit-and-miss, particularly if you have a light flywheel (you do) and/or a balky shifter (you probably don't). I prefer actively putting the engine at the correct RPM for the new gear with the throttle before/while letting the clutch out.

If it jerks when you put the clutch in, you've either not rolled out of the throttle enough (your head bobs forward as the acceleration the engine was applying is removed when the engine disconnects) or rolled out too much (your head gets pushed a little more than it was against the seat as the engine braking is removed).

If it jerks when you let the clutch out, you again missed your target with the timing and/or throttle. This time, the cues are reversed since you're reconnecting the engine...Head bobbing forward means you didn't use enough gas and head getting snapped against the seat means you used too much.

You can smooth out minor imperfections by slightly slowing down the clutch travel as you go through the friction point/zone. You do not, however, want to use this excessively as a crutch.

If it is a goal, it is possible to be very smooth the vast majority of the time with a lot of practice, but you will still have occasional busts.

2) The cow covered this. If you don't want to double-clutch it, for the sake of your first-gear synchro, you really shouldn't be going faster than you can walk when you put it into first.

3) I do second (third?) the motion that it should take a nearly vertical hill (slight exaggeration) for that car to need a downshift at 65-70 but will cover the technical aspects too.

Don't force a synchronized transmission into gear. You put the shifter in the proper gate and push it towards the gear and the transmission will "take" it. If you're following that procedure and everything is working correctly, there should be no grind.

It will take longer for the transmission to take the gear on this shift because, by waiting while you use Georgia overdrive (which may technically be illegal in your state), you allow the engine and the input shaft of the transmission to spin down to idle, so the fifth-gear synchro (which is traditionally weaker because it doesn't typically need to do as much work) has to spin the input shaft all the way up from about 800 to about 3000.

This is another case where double-clutching can make the synchro's job easier (and make it so you don't have to wait so long or force the shifter). If you're in neutral, there's no real reason to leave the clutch depressed and you're wearing the throwout bearing (and your leg). If you let the clutch out while coasting, double-clutching in this case is simply a matter of revving up to the right RPM (about 3000 here) before putting the clutch back in. Then do the shift fairly promptly and the transmission should go in like butter.

There is one other thing that could be contributing to a grind in this situation, and that's if the clutch is not fully disengaging. Check for wadded up floormats and make sure you're pushing the pedal all the way. There are also mechanical reasons why a clutch might not fully disengage, but see if the other stuff works first.

[ClutchDisc]

... and I need to go up a steep hill at about 65 or 70 mph...

How steep? Perhaps 4th is a good gear for going up it.

Oh, didn't see that he said it was a steep hill. In that case, fourth gear might be needed. To the OP: What are your engine rpms in fifth gear at 65 and 70?

[amantonas]

3) I do second (third?) the motion that it should take a nearly vertical hill (slight exaggeration) for that car to need a downshift at 65-70 but will cover the technical aspects too.

Don't force a synchronized transmission into gear. You put the shifter in the proper gate and push it towards the gear and the transmission will "take" it. If you're following that procedure and everything is working correctly, there should be no grind.

It will take longer for the transmission to take the gear on this shift because, by waiting while you use Georgia overdrive (which may technically be illegal in your state), you allow the engine and the input shaft of the transmission to spin down to idle, so the fifth-gear synchro (which is traditionally weaker because it doesn't typically need to do as much work) has to spin the input shaft all the way up from about 800 to about 3000.

This is another case where double-clutching can make the synchro's job easier (and make it so you don't have to wait so long or force the shifter). If you're in neutral, there's no real reason to leave the clutch depressed and you're wearing the throwout bearing (and your leg). If you let the clutch out while coasting, double-clutching in this case is simply a matter of revving up to the right RPM (about 3000 here) before putting the clutch back in. Then do the shift fairly promptly and the transmission should go in like butter.

There is one other thing that could be contributing to a grind in this situation, and that's if the clutch is not fully disengaging. Check for wadded up floormats and make sure you're pushing the pedal all the way. There are also mechanical reasons why a clutch might not fully disengage, but see if the other stuff works first.

Ok, so I may have said wrong when I said I used 4th to get up a hill and then coast down and then go back into 5th. I guess that was kind of just a scenario; it's really just when I'm coasting down a hill and I want to put it in 5th. I realize now that that's really hard on the transmission; even when I rev-match in that situation it grinds. I'm realizing that it's just more safe/logical to keep it in gear most of the time.

And I don't think I force it into gear, like I said when I'm slowing down and I try to put it in first, I don't shove it in, I hold it there until it falls in. I don't think it's the clutch fully disengaging either; I know the pedal's all the way to the floor.

[ClutchFork]

What you should look at is at a stop, put the clutch pedal is all the way to the floor, then shift into first, now slowly raise your foot until the clutch starts to engage. Should be minimum 1 inch above floor or so.

The other thing is that you are new and your skills will develop over time. It will all come together, especially with the good advice here. I have been driving stick since 1977 and learned many new things here.

[MFan]

To clear things up...when you said you tried to stick it in 1st before stopping, I'm assuming that you're only moving the stick in position while you're clutched in and not actually tried to downshift into 1st at 20mph?

Out of curiosity, why do you want to put it in 1st while you're still doing 20mph (or 10mph for that matter)? A previously mentioned, you really shouldn't be going faster than you can walk when you put it into 1st. If you still going above 10mph and thinks the light will change (without coming to a complete stop), then I would put it in 2nd or even downshift to 2nd and keep it rolling in 2nd. Otherwise, stay in neutral until a complete stop, then put it in 1st when you're about to get going.

[amantonas]

To clear things up...when you said you tried to stick it in 1st before stopping, I'm assuming that you're only moving the stick in position while you're clutched in and not actually tried to downshift into 1st at 20mph?

Out of curiosity, why do you want to put it in 1st while you're still doing 20mph (or 10mph for that matter)? A previously mentioned, you really shouldn't be going faster than you can walk when you put it into 1st. If you still going above 10mph and thinks the light will change (without coming to a complete stop), then I would put it in 2nd or even downshift to 2nd and keep it rolling in 2nd. Otherwise, stay in neutral until a complete stop, then put it in 1st when you're about to get going.

Yeah I'm not trying to downshift, I'm just moving it into position earlier rather than later. I just thought it wouldn't matter if the clutch was in.

[daleadbull]

To clear things up...when you said you tried to stick it in 1st before stopping, I'm assuming that you're only moving the stick in position while you're clutched in and not actually tried to downshift into 1st at 20mph?

Out of curiosity, why do you want to put it in 1st while you're still doing 20mph (or 10mph for that matter)? A previously mentioned, you really shouldn't be going faster than you can walk when you put it into 1st. If you still going above 10mph and thinks the light will change (without coming to a complete stop), then I would put it in 2nd or even downshift to 2nd and keep it rolling in 2nd. Otherwise, stay in neutral until a complete stop, then put it in 1st when you're about to get going.

Yeah I'm not trying to downshift, I'm just moving it into position earlier rather than later. I just thought it wouldn't matter if the clutch was in.

Even if you are clutched in, the synchros still have to work. If you really want to put it in 1st at that high of a speed, you have to double clutch: shift to neutral, let go of clutch, rev match, then clutch in and shift to 1st.

But I don't get why you are trying to shift into 1st before coming to a stop. If you do have to get going again without coming to a stop, shift into 2nd instead. Otherwise, just coast in whatever gear your in, then clutch in and go into neutral a little bit before coming to a complete stop.

Keep it simple especially when you are new.

[MFan]

^^^Exactly.

If you shift into 1st before coming to a complete stop, it means that you'll have to hold the clutch for the entire duration of the wait. Your throwout bearing wouldn't like you for this. This is just bad habit, IMHO. You will prematurely wear out your synchors & throwout bearing, as previously mentioned.

[amantonas]

^^^Exactly.

If you shift into 1st before coming to a complete stop, it means that you'll have to hold the clutch for the entire duration of the wait. Your throwout bearing wouldn't like you for this. This is just bad habit, IMHO. You will prematurely wear out your synchors & throwout bearing, as previously mentioned.

Ok, good to know so I can stop before I cause any damage to my clutch/transmission!