Low speed driving woes

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TimYH
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Low speed driving woes

Post by TimYH »

Hi all - long time stalker of the forums and website, just never bothered to post until now.I purchased my first manual car, a Ford Focus ST. Everybody called me crazy and the dealer gave me a funny look as I struggled to drive it off the lot but I managed to get home in once piece with minimal people honking and throwing me dirty looks. Probably not the easiest car to learn on for a first timer? It took me a while to get used to the clutch and I really feel the engagement point is very high. Luckily I got plenty of low end torque so I can get the car rolling without too many rpms. Overall I am feeling ok about driving now. A little nervous at lights and hills, but I just remember to ignore all other people remain calm and get the car moving whenever I mess something up.

After one whole day of practicing in a parking lot to get comfortable at first gear launches and another day driving on the highway to the airport and back with some traffic I am feeling at least alright. Stop and Go I can handle decently. I usually either put the car in neutral and wait or leave it in first and hold the clutch with some feathering to keep it moving crawling or at least ready to move forward again. I realize I am spending a lot of time timing lights and watching movement so I can get into gear and rolling at the appropriate time. Something that never seemed to matter in a slush.

I have realized my weakest area is low speed driving. Like earlier today when I am driving into my office complex, I got caught behind a Fedex truck. We are turning into the parking lot and he is going very very slowly. Probably under 5 mphs. I am in second gear currently and don't get my foot onto the clutch fast enough and I stall out. Luckily he pulls away and no one is around me so I just start the car, first gear and move along. But then, slightly shaken / disappointed I am parking (head in) and miss-time engaging the clutch as I brake into the spot so the car stalls, maybe a foot short of being perfectly parked.

It is these low speed moments where I feel I have the most trouble. My mind goes a few directions usually. Shift to neutral, or press down on the clutch, or shift down a gear if available. Probably by the time I have thought of what to do I am about to stall or have stalled (like today). Anybody have some advice for this kind of stuff?
Last edited by TimYH on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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six
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by six »

Welcome :)

Congrats on the car. I heard the Focus ST is a great car.

Seems like you already got the basics down. As far as low speed driving is concerned, don't be afraid of coasting in neutral. Like your FedEx truck example, if it was me, as the FedEx truck was slowing down for the turn, I would just switch to neutral and crawl along with the truck. Once it's your turn to turn in, switch to 2nd (or first, if you're ultra slow) then accelerate as normal. Same goes for speed bumps... you will probably approach a speed bump in 2nd gear. As you go over the speed bump, clutch-in so you're in neutral. Your momentum should get you over the speed bump. Same goes for parking too. If you're on level ground, you can just do a no-gas launch into the spot, or coast into a spot in neutral. No need to be in gear the whole time.
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rml605
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by rml605 »

six wrote:Welcome :)

Congrats on the car. I heard the Focus ST is a great car.

Seems like you already got the basics down. As far as low speed driving is concerned, don't be afraid of coasting in neutral. Like your FedEx truck example, if it was me, as the FedEx truck was slowing down for the turn, I would just switch to neutral and crawl along with the truck. Once it's your turn to turn in, switch to 2nd (or first, if you're ultra slow) then accelerate as normal. Same goes for speed bumps... you will probably approach a speed bump in 2nd gear. As you go over the speed bump, clutch-in so you're in neutral. Your momentum should get you over the speed bump. Same goes for parking too. If you're on level ground, you can just do a no-gas launch into the spot, or coast into a spot in neutral. No need to be in gear the whole time.
Exactly this.

I usually just throw it in N and then just slip clutch into 1st/2nd when needing to accelerate. You can also just rev match into 1st, but it never turns out good with me. If you're in the car with me and im rev matching in 1st, hold on. :lol:
TimYH
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by TimYH »

I will give that a try. I forgot to mention the complicating factor that the turn where I stalled behind the truck was an uphill incline. But still, my actions should be, brake, switch to neutral until he clears enough space then shift to first gear for an uphill start and go.
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ClutchFork
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by ClutchFork »

Congratulations on buying a manual transmission car. Practice makes perfect. I still goof up at times, even after 26 years of driving a manual.

If you can see the cross traffic light you can see when their light turns yellow (or their left turn light turns yellow) then you can put it in gear and get ready. This works best at night or if you have a divided highway where you can look to the other sides light. But don't feel like you have to move out the instant the light turns green. Automatic drivers often take their sweet time gettin away from a light.

But the best part: Don't you just LOVE the positive engagement (real feel) you have with the road in a manual, vs the fluid connection in a juice box?
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by tankinbeans »

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new car!

I can usually coast in first when behind slow moving traffic and don't have to switch to neutral for much at all.

I'm going to steal your seats 'em kay. :lol:
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daleadbull
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by daleadbull »

Awesome car! Congrats and welcome.

Just like you, I bought a brand new hot hatch and drove it home myself after only driving manual once before (for 2 hrs max). I stalled a bunch of times at a stop light in a incline. haha

In crawling situations (under 5 mph), I just leave mine in 1st and I don't think I've stalled while crawling yet. In your fedex truck example, you mentioned you were crawling up hill in 2nd, you probably should have DS to 1st and you would have been fine. If you shifted into neutral, you might roll back depending how much forward momentum you have.

I have lot of weakness (launching and hills) but I think I'm pretty good at crawling at low speed. The key is to clutch in when in doubt, so just be ready with your left foot. After you're clutched if its time to move again, you can just chose whether to shift into 1st or 2nd depending on speed.
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TimYH
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by TimYH »

@tankinbeans - I'll give you one recaro seat in exchange for the extra parking sensors or backup camera! I never understood why the ST didn't get those features.

@daleadbull - Yeah it really is the slow speed driving that throws me off especially when I am coming into a parking lot of more local street off the highway. I get caught in the wrong gear or find myself pushing down on the brakes too hard killing the engine. I really need to make a mental note to start down-shifting as I brake or stay in a lower gear in anticipation.

For hills, I just went to a nearby college campus on a Sunday and practiced starting on a hill there. I try to do it the right way. Car in neutral and fully on the brake (I don't like the handbrake method because my handbrake is damn stiff to move). When you need to go quickly gas a bit more than usual and let the clutch up to the engagement point . Nice and slow on the clutch when you feel moving add more power and get off the hill as fast as you can :lol: .
Just for practice though, I sat on the hill kept the clutch just at the engagement while holding enough rpms to hold / roll forward a bit. I know that is the WRONG way to do it normally, but it helped get me comfortable with the rolling back sensation and getting my feet moving back and forth. I know my car has hill-assist but either it is turned off or I am never on a hill steep enough for it to trigger. Might need to ask the dealer about it when I pick up the some paperwork tomorrow.
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six
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by six »

TimYH wrote: I know my car has hill-assist but either it is turned off or I am never on a hill steep enough for it to trigger. Might need to ask the dealer about it when I pick up the some paperwork tomorrow.
You're dealer is not going to know anything about it. Hill-start assist usually consists of the car holding the brake for a couple seconds longer after you release it so you have time to shuffle your feet to the correct pedals before the car rolls back. To find out if it is enabled or not, go to a significantly steep hill (such as a steep driveway), stop and hold the brake down, fully depress the clutch, then release the brake. The car should be stationary for 2-3 seconds before rolling back. If you are practicing on hills that are not steep enough to engage hill-assist, you are practicing on the wrong hills. :wink:
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by tankinbeans »

Go through your driver info screens, this is the screen between your tach and speedo. There should be a menu with driver aides, in which it will list traction control and hill assist. You should be able to determine of it's on or off from there.
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by Jastreb »

Welcome to the site. In a situation such as you describe, I would stay in gear and clutch in. When there's enough space for me to go, I'd just do a "rolling launch". With enough experience, clutching in when coming to a stop or when your rpms are too low should become almost second nature, at least that's the case for me.
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by Roger »

If you're at crawling speeds that are too slow for 2nd (or uphill) then shift into 1st, give the throttle a little blip, then engage the clutch with the throttle as if you are doing a soft launch. If you don't give it a small blip it's generally a bit jerky unless you're very generous with the throttle as you engage the clutch.
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by TimYH »

Update

Did much better today I think. Wasn't the Fedex truck, but an office furniture delivery truck. I have bad timing when it comes to these things.

Anyway...coming off the main road I am doing about 40-45 and in 5th gear. Coming into the entrance behind this truck I press the brakes, clutch in. I think I should have put it in neutral first then shifted. But since I was almost at a stand still I put it in 2nd (good idea bad idea?) and experienced some engine reving because of the big downshift. Nothing to terrible, the tachometer went up to around 3K-4k as I waited. Once he cleared the first speed bump I let off the clutch and rolled behind him.

Separate kind of issue related to clutch usage. I remember reading somewhere (maybe here or a blog) to imagine the following.
There is a small red light on your dashboard. Whenever the clutch is pressed all the way down it is off. Whenever the clutch is released all the way up, the light is off. Anything in between those two extremes, the light is bright red. Your goal should be to minimize how much this light is on and thus you will save your clutch.
So with that said, at very low speed driving. Like when you are parking your car in a tight space going less than 1 foot per second, I currently feel like I have to keep my foot on the clutch in between those two extremes to keep a very slow crawl going to fit in correctly. Is this normal and I just have to live with it?
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by theholycow »

TimYH wrote:But since I was almost at a stand still I put it in 2nd (good idea bad idea?) and experienced some engine reving because of the big downshift. Nothing to terrible, the tachometer went up to around 3K-4k as I waited.
I don't understand. If you were almost at a stand still, engaging 2nd shouldn't cause the engine to rev up. Was your clutch pedal floored and your accelerator depressed?
Separate kind of issue related to clutch usage. I remember reading somewhere (maybe here or a blog) to imagine the following.
There is a small red light on your dashboard. Whenever the clutch is pressed all the way down it is off. Whenever the clutch is released all the way up, the light is off. Anything in between those two extremes, the light is bright red. Your goal should be to minimize how much this light is on and thus you will save your clutch.
That's good, but only if you don't take it too far. It encourages an unnecessary level of clutch paranoia. The clutch's job is to slip and wear, and it's quite good at doing that job for a long time unless you're a real bunghole abusing it.
So with that said, at very low speed driving. Like when you are parking your car in a tight space going less than 1 foot per second, I currently feel like I have to keep my foot on the clutch in between those two extremes to keep a very slow crawl going to fit in correctly. Is this normal and I just have to live with it?
You either have to slip the clutch continuously, keep it in 1st and brake to below idle RPM, or pulse and coast. Those are your options.
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TimYH
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Re: Low speed driving woes

Post by TimYH »

I am trying to think back to what happened. I wasn't at a complete standstill, just moving very slow. My left foot pushed the clutch in all the way. Shifted down. When I let go I noticed the revs went up. I might have tapped the acceleration by accident before but I am not completely sure. Nothing happened like I said it just surprised me.

Forgetting about that story for now, what would have you done in a similar situation?
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