How to teach manual driver to be easier on clutch?

[SonicHKS]

You'd probably be surprised if you rode in my car and saw my driving style .

Doubtful. I'm not easily impressed.

And, I think you referenced your age with regard to your driving abilities?

No, I made a correlation between age and experience, not just ability.

Innovation doesn't need 20-30 years to develop, and I was experienced enough years ago to become very proficient at very advanced shifting skills/techniques. Besides, my Dad is older than you and he isn't that great. Some people are just ignorant, or too scared to try out new things.

Maybe your dad has no desire to improve. Some people are happy if they can just get by. You know, the typical jack of all trades and the master of none.

But like I said, you're a legend if your own mind. Whatever makes you happy, I guess

You should post some videos of yourself driving with your awesome driving abilities. You know, your lightening fast shifts that are faster than dual-clutch and your insanely smooth shifting that would put an automatic transmission to shame. Let me know when you get those videos up.

If you know my old account, then you can find them on YT . Most are from 5-6 years ago when I was still a noob.

[Shadow]

If you know my old account, then you can find them on YT . Most are from 5-6 years ago when I was still a noob.

I have no idea about your YouTube account.

[theholycow]

Every automatic I've been in has been kinda....clunky between gears. Not expensive luxury cars by any means, but I'm talking relatively new Hondas and GM products. Cars that normal people drive, not $50k+ state-of-the-art machinery. I shift faster and more smoothly than them by far. And the only dual clutch I've been in would launch like a noob driving stick (bucky/jerky) and the shifts were at least as slow as mine. Not to mention that it would upshift for you if you kept it revving for more than 5 seconds close to redline . So anyways, what I originally said still applies, I didn't say ALL automatics I inferred that it was in general.

If an automatic is ever out of gear during a shift, it is slipping and needs to be repaired. Traditional automatics overlap gears; the 3rd clutch is partially engaged before the 2nd clutch is disengaged. This produces uninterrupted power to the road.

If you mean you shift sooner, not faster, well yeah...automatics tend to by shy of upshifting if you're foot is heavy. I've never had one shift before redline at WOT.

As for revving at/near redline for 5+ seconds, why would you want to do that? Wouldn't you want to upshift and continue accelerating, rather than sitting there pointlessly making noise cruising at redline? The only thing I can think of is if you're not confident in your brakes and want lots of engine braking, in which case you could put .001% of the effort into learning automatic that you've put into learning manual, and downshift it. (Or, heaven forbid, you could repair your brakes.)

[SonicHKS]

Every automatic I've been in has been kinda....clunky between gears. Not expensive luxury cars by any means, but I'm talking relatively new Hondas and GM products. Cars that normal people drive, not $50k+ state-of-the-art machinery. I shift faster and more smoothly than them by far. And the only dual clutch I've been in would launch like a noob driving stick (bucky/jerky) and the shifts were at least as slow as mine. Not to mention that it would upshift for you if you kept it revving for more than 5 seconds close to redline . So anyways, what I originally said still applies, I didn't say ALL automatics I inferred that it was in general.

If an automatic is ever out of gear during a shift, it is slipping and needs to be repaired. Traditional automatics overlap gears; the 3rd clutch is partially engaged before the 2nd clutch is disengaged. This produces uninterrupted power to the road.

If you mean you shift sooner, not faster, well yeah...automatics tend to by shy of upshifting if you're foot is heavy. I've never had one shift before redline at WOT.

As for revving at/near redline for 5+ seconds, why would you want to do that? Wouldn't you want to upshift and continue accelerating, rather than sitting there pointlessly making noise cruising at redline? The only thing I can think of is if you're not confident in your brakes and want lots of engine braking, in which case you could put .001% of the effort into learning automatic that you've put into learning manual, and downshift it. (Or, heaven forbid, you could repair your brakes.)

What I meant is, automatics are slower to react, and they do take a second (or fraction of a second, w/e) to go between gears. Then when it hits the next gear it's not that smooth. I've driven fairly new cars that drive like this. My grandmother has a PT Cruiser turbo with only 40k miles on it and the transmission is relatively very rough. I'm not sure how else to describe it because it doesn't slip/lose gears during shifts, if that makes any sense.

In "aggressive" driving you want to be able to downshift and engine brake with it revving high. You want to be in the gear you're going to exit the corner in before you enter the corner, too. You don't want it upshifting for you, that makes for sloppy driving and upsets the weight balance/traction of the car. For instance a few years ago I was on the Cherohala Skyway in my '86 Fiero SE. I would downshift into 2nd for corners, at about 55-60 mph. That's 5500-6000RPM in that car, basically right at redline. After apexing the corner I'd be at about 4500RPM, perfect for getting back on the throttle and taking it to redline then upshifting. With the dual-clutch gearbox I described, it would probably upshift going into the corner . The purpose of it being a manual transmission is so you control shifting and what gear its in. What's the point of having a dual-clutch "manual" if it second-guesses and shifts for you?

[theholycow]

What I meant is, automatics are slower to react, and they do take a second (or fraction of a second, w/e) to go between gears. Then when it hits the next gear it's not that smooth. I've driven fairly new cars that drive like this. My grandmother has a PT Cruiser turbo with only 40k miles on it and the transmission is relatively very rough. I'm not sure how else to describe it because it doesn't slip/lose gears during shifts, if that makes any sense.

That hasn't been my experience. I lay the hammer down, the transmission shifts NOW. Some do shift hard, but usually the shock you feel is just the instant change in torque put down to the pavement.

However, the solution to all of the things you describe is simply to operate more of the automatic's features. Leaving it in D is fine if you're just taking an easy drive to the grocery store but if you are doing the sort of thing where you need a lower gear, downshift it. It's way easier to downshift than a manual, just operate one shifter or button in one dimension instead of doing stuff with pedals and a two-dimensional shifter. It amazes me the effort that people put into learning to drive a manual to the maximum of its performance, yet the lack of effort they make in using an automatic any differently than grandma does on the way to the senior center.

[SonicHKS]

That hasn't been my experience. I lay the hammer down, the transmission shifts NOW. Some do shift hard, but usually the shock you feel is just the instant change in torque put down to the pavement.

However, the solution to all of the things you describe is simply to operate more of the automatic's features. Leaving it in D is fine if you're just taking an easy drive to the grocery store but if you are doing the sort of thing where you need a lower gear, downshift it. It's way easier to downshift than a manual, just operate one shifter or button in one dimension instead of doing stuff with pedals and a two-dimensional shifter. It amazes me the effort that people put into learning to drive a manual to the maximum of its performance, yet the lack of effort they make in using an automatic any differently than grandma does on the way to the senior center.

Its a matter of perspective. You probably consider you "laying the hammer down" and it downshifting to be quick. In a manual I shift faster than that, so I consider it slow.

I've driven automatics in autocross, and up in the mountains for years before I learned stick. I had a 4th gen F-body with a LS1 and a 4-speed slush. Kicking it down like that is glacially slow compared to me shifting a manual. Not to mention how jerky it is and how much it upsets the balance of the car. I can downshift in a manual without abusing the clutch, without it jerking like that. Every downshift.

[Rope-Pusher]

Depending on the design of the automatic and on what ratio you are downshifting from compared to what ratio you are downshifting to, there can be some mechanical delay, literally waiting for the planets to align (OK, maybe not align in position, but to get to their proper speed and/or rotation direction for that next gear). That rotational inertia that must be overcome can affect upshifts as well, but some of those shifts can be helped out by using over-running clutches. With multi-speed slushboxes, those intermediate ratios can be the result of driving through/combining several elements of the transmission at once. The time required to grab just one gear down might be greater or less than the time to downshift two or three ratio steps.

Similarly, the time to drop down two gears on a Dual-clutch transmission can be much longer than the time required to downshift 1, 3, or 5 ratio steps. Since the odd ratios are all driving off one clutch and the even ratios are all driving off the other clutch, you can't preselect and pre-synchronize gear ratios that are 2 or 4 ratio ranges away because they are operating off the same clutch you are currently driving on.