New to driving stick

[rml605]

How do you guys usually move the shifter into 2nd when downshifting?

Let's say 3-2...do you just turn your palms towards you and go down like 5-6 just opposite, or do you quickly go to N then move all the way left and down? I ask this because DS to 2nd seems to be my biggest problem and I think it's because im doing the 2ndway I listed and my revs are falling since im not fast enough. I've tried the first way, but I end up in 4th a lot.

I just pull it back towards me with the right amount of pressure to the left. I used to do the 3 step motion of down, left and then down again but like you said it just takes too long. Just pull it towards you diagonally, after a while it'll become muscle memory. Subconsciously what I'm doing is putting less pressure in the beginning which allows the shifter to fall into neutral then more pressure which allows it to slip to the left and down but all I think about is diagonally pulling it towards me like "/".

Don't think, just do!

I tried it the other way and I shifted into 4th.

I can not DS to 2nd for the life of me.

That and hills seem to be my only things still giving me trouble. 1-2 shift, other rev matches, launches are going great. Im actually pretty quick off the line.

[daleadbull]

How do you guys usually move the shifter into 2nd when downshifting?

Let's say 3-2...do you just turn your palms towards you and go down like 5-6 just opposite, or do you quickly go to N then move all the way left and down? I ask this because DS to 2nd seems to be my biggest problem and I think it's because im doing the 2ndway I listed and my revs are falling since im not fast enough. I've tried the first way, but I end up in 4th a lot.

I just pull it back towards me with the right amount of pressure to the left. I used to do the 3 step motion of down, left and then down again but like you said it just takes too long. Just pull it towards you diagonally, after a while it'll become muscle memory. Subconsciously what I'm doing is putting less pressure in the beginning which allows the shifter to fall into neutral then more pressure which allows it to slip to the left and down but all I think about is diagonally pulling it towards me like "/".

Don't think, just do!

I tried it the other way and I shifted into 4th.

I can not DS to 2nd for the life of me.

That and hills seem to be my only things still giving me trouble. 1-2 shift, other rev matches, launches are going great. Im actually pretty quick off the line.

The only thing still giving me trouble is launching in general (Flat and hill), I could also be smoother on 1-2 shifts but I'm getting better. I'm actually pretty comfortable with down shifting, today I nailed 4 perfect rev matched downshifts in a row from 6-2. Single clutch rev matched 6-5, 5-4, 4-3 then heal-toe from 3-2. Ah it was so satisfying!

Every gear box is different, so it may take more effort for you to go from 3-2 in one motion but keep trying you'll figure out what works for you. It actually took me while to figure out how to go from 4-5 in one motion.

[rml605]

The only thing still giving me trouble is launching in general (Flat and hill), I could also be smoother on 1-2 shifts but I'm getting better. I'm actually pretty comfortable with down shifting, today I nailed 4 perfect rev matched downshifts in a row from 6-2. Single clutch rev matched 6-5, 5-4, 4-3 then heal-toe from 3-2. Ah it was so satisfying!

Every gear box is different, so it may take more effort for you to go from 3-2 in one motion but keep trying you'll figure out what works for you. It actually took me while to figure out how to go from 4-5 in one motion.

Yeah, my launching on hills needs to get better.

2.5K revs are starting to scare me. I really do not like using the handbrake, AT ALL, so im just going to have to keep practicing.

Oh, and I stalled out today backing out of a spot in reverse. I was wondering why my car wasn't moving, and then I saw all my lights on my dash on.

[daleadbull]

The only thing still giving me trouble is launching in general (Flat and hill), I could also be smoother on 1-2 shifts but I'm getting better. I'm actually pretty comfortable with down shifting, today I nailed 4 perfect rev matched downshifts in a row from 6-2. Single clutch rev matched 6-5, 5-4, 4-3 then heal-toe from 3-2. Ah it was so satisfying!

Every gear box is different, so it may take more effort for you to go from 3-2 in one motion but keep trying you'll figure out what works for you. It actually took me while to figure out how to go from 4-5 in one motion.

Yeah, my launching on hills needs to get better.

2.5K revs are starting to scare me. I really do not like using the handbrake, AT ALL, so im just going to have to keep practicing.

Oh, and I stalled out today backing out of a spot in reverse. I was wondering why my car wasn't moving, and then I saw all my lights on my dash on.

I'm the opposite, I'm too conservative. lol I don't think I've ever launched over 2k, not even close. lol

I don't think I've ever stalled going reverse tho, my car starts moving fast if I even get close to the engagement point (in reverse). I've never let the clutch fully out going reverse.

[Shadow]

I'm the opposite, I'm too conservative. lol I don't think I've ever launched over 2k, not even close. lol
.

You haven't lived until you've side-stepped the clutch at 6000 RPM, preferably in an AWD car

Brutal on the machinery, sure.....but unbelievably fun too.

I have a picture of myself launching my old Eagle Talon at Raceway Park in Englishtown NJ that was taken just a split second after a 6000 RPM clutch drop. I'll have to scan it and post it here. The launch was so hard that the wipers popped on, and you can clearly see that in the picture too. I really don't know how that car survived all those brutal launches without breaking. Eventually, the rear axles sheared off, but that was after LOTS of those drag strip launches.

[rml605]

I'm the opposite, I'm too conservative. lol I don't think I've ever launched over 2k, not even close. lol

I don't think I've ever stalled going reverse tho, my car starts moving fast if I even get close to the engagement point (in reverse). I've never let the clutch fully out going reverse.

You have an R32, correct?

Man, im not a huge VW besides the R32s, but I love that low torque on them. I remember driving the new GLI and I think I forgot to gas it and I ended up with a smooth launch with no stall.


Another question..a turn on my campus is a pretty big hill. Im usually in 3rd or 4th approaching it. Now, I have DS to 2nd before hand and went up it at like 1.5-1.7. Is this bad? Should I just go into 1st? How do you go about this? In 3rd let's say..right when I get to the bottom of hill going up..just slip clutch up the hill in 1st?

[theholycow]

Another question..a turn on my campus is a pretty big hill. Im usually in 3rd or 4th approaching it. Now, I have DS to 2nd before hand and went up it at like 1.5-1.7. Is this bad? Should I just go into 1st?

Does the car complain? Any unpleasant noise or bucking? Is it unable to accelerate? If no to all, then it's fine.

How do you go about this? In 3rd let's say..right when I get to the bottom of hill going up..just slip clutch up the hill in 1st?

I don't think I'd want to slip 1st all the way up a hill. If you're currently climbing it in 2nd successfully you should be able to just engage 1st normally and drive up the hill without slipping the clutch the whole way.

[daleadbull]

You haven't lived until you've side-stepped the clutch at 6000 RPM, preferably in an AWD car

Brutal on the machinery, sure.....but unbelievably fun too.

I have a picture of myself launching my old Eagle Talon at Raceway Park in Englishtown NJ that was taken just a split second after a 6000 RPM clutch drop. I'll have to scan it and post it here. The launch was so hard that the wipers popped on, and you can clearly see that in the picture too. I really don't know how that car survived all those brutal launches without breaking. Eventually, the rear axles sheared off, but that was after LOTS of those drag strip launches.

Yes, but I'm still in that honeymoon stage with my car so I don't wan to beat on her too bad.

Post up that pic, I would love to see.

You have an R32, correct?

Man, im not a huge VW besides the R32s, but I love that low torque on them. I remember driving the new GLI and I think I forgot to gas it and I ended up with a smooth launch with no stall.

Not R32, it's the next generation just called R now. They went from a 3.2 VR6 to a 2.0L Turbo, but still have tons of torque down low. The downsizing led to a lot of weight savings and better handling plus the turbo is easily tunable (word? spelling?). I'm stage 1 with just a flash and I'm at around 300 hp and tq. I want to perfect my launch before I mod any further tho. The stock clutch won't be able to handle any more than stage 1. Its so hard being patient though cus an intake, high pressure fuel pump and a downpipe will have me at 350 hp/360 tq! (but I'd have to budget for an aftermarket clutch at that point)

[rml605]

How fast do you guys release clutch on hills?

I feel with my car's low engagement point, it's really not necessary to quickly do it unless you're that panicked about rolling back. I don't roll back to much even if I launch like I do on flat ground. Is this bad for my clutch? Im not really holding it or anything and no smells.

[theholycow]

What you're doing is fine, and dare I say, the proper and best way to handle it. "Holding the car on the hill with the clutch" would be if you're waiting, not what you do while you're launching. My hill clutch release is pretty similar to level ground.

[Rope-Pusher]

What you're doing is fine, and dare I say, the proper and best way to handle it. "Holding the car on the hill with the clutch" would be if you're waiting, not what you do while you're launching. My hill clutch release is pretty similar to level ground.

A-Hill, A-Hill. A-Hill!

[Squint]

How fast do you guys release clutch on hills?

I feel with my car's low engagement point, it's really not necessary to quickly do it unless you're that panicked about rolling back. I don't roll back to much even if I launch like I do on flat ground. Is this bad for my clutch? Im not really holding it or anything and no smells.

There are a couple of bad hills in my town that scare most manual drivers. However, I just get ready for the light change. You can see it changing, so I'm in gear with my foot on the clutch. Once the light changes/car in front of me moves, I usually give it a little higher than normal RPM and release the clutch quicker than normal driving.

Granted, I also like having zero roll back.. but I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

[rml605]

How fast do you guys release clutch on hills?

I feel with my car's low engagement point, it's really not necessary to quickly do it unless you're that panicked about rolling back. I don't roll back to much even if I launch like I do on flat ground. Is this bad for my clutch? Im not really holding it or anything and no smells.

There are a couple of bad hills in my town that scare most manual drivers. However, I just get ready for the light change. You can see it changing, so I'm in gear with my foot on the clutch. Once the light changes/car in front of me moves, I usually give it a little higher than normal RPM and release the clutch quicker than normal driving.

Granted, I also like having zero roll back.. but I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

I think I only roll back a drop, because my clutch catches so low I get into gear so quickly. I honestly don't care for roll back. Most of the time it feels as if you're moving back more than you really are and most of the time people are further back on your ass than you think. Unless I really know someone is right on top of me, I don't mind. I have been in back of cars with some serious roll backs. I think I stated back a couple pages how I was in back of an M3 once and he literally rolled back like more than a two feet.

[daleadbull]

I have a question about the rate the revs fall when upshifting. I find that I can release the clutch pretty quick when I'm shifting at higher RPMs than lower RPMs which makes no sense to me. Isn't the difference in ratios amplified when shifting at higher RPMs? Maybe this is how the rev hang is programmed, allowing for quicker gear changes at higher RPMs while making the revs falls slower at lower RPMs to improve emissions?

Note, I don't really have rev hang per say. I just find revs drop faster when shifting at higher RPMs, maybe its in my head.

In a related question, when trying to shift quickly. Do you clutch in and immediately clutch out (while slipping) or do you clutch in, wait a moment till the revs are close to where they should be then release clutch?

[theholycow]

Rev hang could certainly be programmed differently as you describe. If you don't have rev hang, it could still be explained another way; engine friction and reciprocating loss don't increase directly proportionally with engine RPM but flywheel energy does. At twice the RPM, there might be 3 times the amount of internal resistance from them. (I don't know the formula so I can't say if it's a square, other exponent, or somewhere in-between.) The difference in gear ratios is proportional, however, like you said.

That sort of behavior can vary significantly from car to car.

I don't bother waiting for revs to fall during an upshift. I slip the clutch if I want it smooth, or I dump the clutch if I want it fast. Waiting for revs to fall is a waste of time with no redeeming value in my opinion.