Improvements - open to suggestions

[Shadow]

Hi everyone,

I've been driving my first standard car, an '84 Jetta, for the past 3 months now.

It's not been smooth. First, the car doesn't have a tachometer. While some say that's a better way to learn, it's far more frustrating than I thought. I'm always listening to the (loud) engine.

Learning to drive a stick shift without a tachometer is awesome. Instead of relying on a visual indicator, you are forced to listen to (and feel) the engine's response to your input. If you continue to become more experienced with stick shift vehicles, you'll find that you don't really ever need to use the tach. I only glance at mine occasionally, and not out of necessity.

Secondly, the car was underpowered when new, and after so many years it's lost some power. Take-offs can ONLY be done in first, and I find those hardest of all. I can never seem to find the clutch-point on the first try. While pulling away from a light, I'll release the clutch slowly and give it the gas slowly, and I'll have to tap the clutch in again because I'll get some jerking. I deadly afraid of holding the clutch in too long for fear of burning it. The clutch on the car failed three weeks after I got it; apparently it was never broken in even though it was 3 years old (car was put into storage during those years). I'd love to improve my take-offs without burning the clutch or starving the car.

While there is definitely some amount of wear occurring to the friction surface of the clutch when launching, it's not nearly as bad as some people seem to think. A normal launch isn't really that hard on a clutch, even if the clutch is slipped more than it should be. If the clutch on your car failed three weeks after you got it, I'd think it wasn't in the best shape in the first place....I really doubt you did much to contribute to the failure. When you buy a used car, there's really no way to know what to expect out of the clutch without pulling separating the transmission from the block and actually inspecting it.

Thirdly, I rarely down-shift. I just put it into neutral when coming to a light (I live in a huge metropolitan area, and going past 3rd gear in that car is a rare event). Although this saves gas, I am always nervous, especially since at times I've needed to hit the gas in my other automatic car to avoid near-collisions. When downshifting, it's preferential to put it into 3rd? The old car doesn't seem to like to take on a load like that, especially downshifting and passing with 4th.

Downshifting is fun, but it's not something that you (or any driver) needs to do when approaching a light. There's nothing wrong with popping it in neutral and coasting to a stop. If you need to accelerate again before you're fully stopped, it's not a big deal to put the car back into gear and re-engage the clutch.

Lastly, stop-and-go traffic line-ups, like at stop signs, are killer. I have to hold in the clutch for a bit to get some momentum, and I'll be immediately putting my foot on the clutch and disengaging the engine after only moving a few feet up. I've used the brake and I'll immediately start to hear the car bog down. Is there a better way with dealing with traffic in a non-torquey car?

The only thing I can say here is to allow more room from the car in front of you before you move at all. Did you ever see the way truck drivers (big rigs) move in traffic? Instead of the constant stop-and-go, they tend to crawl along at a very low speed. Sometimes people cut into their lane because of the large gaps they leave, but those same people tend to leave their lanes just as quickly as they enter them.

[krimsonidol]

However, my fear with the technique above is that it will lead to premature clutch failure (again...the "new" clutch in the car failed because it was learned on when it was brand new by myself and my brother).

The clutch's job is to do stuff like that. They don't expect the average driver to rev-match their downshifts or to be careful when launching. It is designed for a good service life with bad driving. As someone who cares, your driving will be better.

^this
You aren't supposed to wrench your foot off the clutch too fast - some drivers and some cars may be faster than others, but ultimately a gentle clutch release is what makes for smooth driving. At least that's what my dad told me

I haven't yet mastered the art of rev-matching for a proper downshift, so I found I've been coasting then putting the car into 2nd gear if traffic suddenly picks up. The gas mileage when coasting is great (the car supposedly gets 42 mpg according to the original brochure) Is that advisable at all? Or should the car always be in some sort of gear?

The only need for staying in gear is if you want to. Neutral is seen as some sort of bugaboo but there's nothing special or scary about it. When you're in neutral your steering and brakes work just as well as any other time. All you lose is acceleration and engine braking (if in a low gear), and if your engine stalls then you will have to restart it (vs. the gear keeping it spinning while it's stalled and re-fires).

I personally feel more comfortable coasting with clutch in and putting the car in 2nd, than having it in Neutral, because I feel like having it already in the right gear position (although not actually in gear due to clutch in) would save me a few bumbling milliseconds if I had to jump out of the way of a bad situation. But it amounts to the same thing pretty much, and as the Cow says, you can still steer and all in neutral so it's not like you're a total sitting duck.

The only time rev-matched downshifting is useful (from what I can gather) is really for downshifting for power such as to pass someone on the interstate - you want to rev-match because you want to maintain speed rather than slow down, so you don't really want to ease gently off the clutch as you apply gas since you'd lose speed. If you rev-match you can come off the clutch much faster and won't have any lag from the revs having to climb up where they need to be.
On the other hand, I didn't need to downshift in order to pass anyone on the interstate this past weekend and it's not like my dinky Cabrio has great acceleration or anything. I just sped up and that worked fine...
Like seriously, how many people do rev-matched downshifts (other than double-clutching Mack truck drivers) on a daily basis? Sometimes the intensity of people on the internet can misrepresent the situation out in the general populace.

Also to heck with all the people honking or revving. It's their problem if they don't know how to chill and get to their destination a minute later than otherwise. My heart warms every time I'm on the interstate and there is someone else in the right lane doing the speed limit (or like 5 under). I just putter along behind 'em and enjoy my day. Then again I'm like 30 going on 75 and reading AARP
I know it's hard to annoy the jerks, but it really is their problem and not yours.

[scionkid]

The only time rev-matched downshifting is useful (from what I can gather) is really for downshifting for power such as to pass someone on the interstate - you want to rev-match because you want to maintain speed rather than slow down, so you don't really want to ease gently off the clutch as you apply gas since you'd lose speed. If you rev-match you can come off the clutch much faster and won't have any lag from the revs having to climb up where they need to be.

Unless you're very careful letting the clutch out smoothly, not rev-matching can send you into a skid when it is wet outside.

[theholycow]

grew out of it after having 2 tickets.

I wish I had been that smart. The tickets only cost a couple hundred bucks, but oh man the insurance... All that money paid to ridiculous insurance rates over the years could have bought a nice car. I obeyed the speed limit for maybe a year when I was 20, then not again until I was 27 or so...I told myself that obeying in certain situations would not use up my luck so I could get away with disobeying in other situations, but when it's all said and done I just drive too many miles on roads with too much enforcement to get away with it.

My record is finally clean and I'm damn well trying to keep it that way...I have better things to do with my money than dump it into fines, unnecessary insurance rates, and wasted fuel.

Like seriously, how many people do rev-matched downshifts (other than double-clutching Mack truck drivers) on a daily basis? Sometimes the intensity of people on the internet can misrepresent the situation out in the general populace.

It depends on a number of things, such as:
- Driver seeking excitement vs. just trying to arrive at destination
- Roads
- Traffic
- Power
- Gears available
- Gears chosen

If you're driving in anything other than high gear and never need to downshift then you may be able to save some fuel by upshifting, and then downshifting only when you need the power of the lower gear.

Sometimes I end up behind someone who is going significantly slower than even I would go and there is a passing zone available; that's a great time for me to practice a major rev-matched downshift, especially since my car has very little power.

For a single-gear downshift at cruising RPM I find that it's usually pointless to rev-match, although it can be fun to practice.

I know it's hard to annoy the jerks, but it really is their problem and not yours.

Well said!

[theholycow]

Unless you're very careful letting the clutch out smoothly, not rev-matching can send you into a skid when it is wet outside.

Whoa nelly! Let's not cause paranoia. That's like the old myth that shifting during a turn will cause a skid.

Any sufficiently harsh jerk can cause a loss of control given that the jerk is harder than the available traction. This is true whether it's from a bad shift, a good shift on bad traction, an automatic transmission shifting under hard acceleration with bad traction, sudden braking with bad traction, a bump in the road with bad traction, etc.

You should not be pushing the envelope on public roads, and therefore there should always be a margin of extra traction available for things like a botched shift.

Then again, if the road is totally empty, it might be a nice time to practice controlled loss of traction with some harsh shifts during a turn on wet roads. I couldn't resist, one rainy day a couple weeks ago I was doing powerslides (drifting, in modern parlance) on every turn where there was nobody to see me and nobody to risk but myself.

[Maggiolone]

Wow, thank you everyone. Many informative replies here!

I drove the car for about 15 miles last night (it has factory fuel injection and a whopping 75 hp [when new]). I allowed myself far extra space at stoplights for improved launches, and it really helped for me to find my clutch point better.

This morning I drove it super-early, and I found I either was A: finding the clutch point much easier, or B: the clutch is going bad. I found it easier to shift from neutral to first gear; my foot was usually in the same place on the clutch at it's "point" (towards the end of releasing the clutch from putting it all the way in). My brother said he holds in it towards the middle when fully releasing it, but it's a cable clutch so anything goes, I suppose.

I did get some honking, though. I dropped it off for a tune-up at a shop on a busy street this morning. I had to make a left without a light. Traffic kept puttering along on one side while the other remained clear. I decided to wait until both sides were clear instead of sticking out in the lane and suddenly accelerating when the other side would be clear.

Man, how the soccer moms and dad behind me got mad! We were all waiting no more then 1.5 minutes, and people were going on my right side (blocking my view in the process) and making those pull-out left turns around me (partially blocking the intersection and all). Granted, I live in a big city with impatient drivers behind the wheels of 11-year-old automatic Corollas, but I made the left turn properly.

[bk7794]

I have an underpowered car, but the thing is the car is super light..weighing in under 2300lbs compared to a modern car which would probably weigh close to a thousand pounds more. Your jetta probably is lighter then my civic, so the weight really does have a factor.

Does you car have a muffler? I ask because you said it was loud, I remember when I first started learning on my car, it was so loud, but it was a nice feeling because when your first learning its difficult to hear the engine sometimes with it being so quiet.

I can not no gas start, even in traffic on flat land so the low gas start is my friend.


Good luck, stay positive and enjoy the drive.

Also try the FAQs those helped me a lot.

[Maggiolone]

I have an underpowered car, but the thing is the car is super light..weighing in under 2300lbs compared to a modern car which would probably weigh close to a thousand pounds more. Your jetta probably is lighter then my civic, so the weight really does have a factor.

Does you car have a muffler? I ask because you said it was loud, I remember when I first started learning on my car, it was so loud, but it was a nice feeling because when your first learning its difficult to hear the engine sometimes with it being so quiet.

I can not no gas start, even in traffic on flat land so the low gas start is my friend.

The car has a brand new muffler, actually. The muffler makes a completely different sound than the engine...the engine is akin to a motorcycle (1700 cc and early electronic fuel injection), so it's roaring or ticking. Coupled with the fact it wasn't ordered with the optional underhood insulation....

[theholycow]

It would be funny to have a Standardshift underpowered cars drag race.

My car reportedly came with a curb weight of 3300-3500 pounds and 125hp (though a pleasant 200ft-lb torque that makes for good driveability if not all-out acceleration) (as rated by 1980's test procedures, which differ from modern procedures). It also has 31 years of rot and 6 years of my inept DIY repair/maintenance/transmission conversion. All things considered it can scoot along reasonably well when I need it to.

[Tups]

My car reportedly came with a curb weight of 3300-3500 pounds and 125hp...

Your power-to-weight ratio is better than mine. 1962 lbs and 69 hp.

[Maggiolone]

It would be funny to have a Standardshift underpowered cars drag race.

My car reportedly came with a curb weight of 3300-3500 pounds and 125hp (though a pleasant 200ft-lb torque that makes for good driveability if not all-out acceleration) (as rated by 1980's test procedures, which differ from modern procedures). It also has 31 years of rot and 6 years of my inept DIY repair/maintenance/transmission conversion. All things considered it can scoot along reasonably well when I need it to.

I grew up in a 1980 Century and I miss that car dearly. I think the Century Turbo Coupe from 1978-79 came with manual transmission.

Here's a ad for my car (only this one is 1983, not '84 like mine):


You can even hear the roaring 4-banger over the sounds of classical music....

Thank God I didn't buy a '84 non-turbo Diesel Jetta that was for sale near me at the same time my car was for sale. 56 horses of fury...with indestructible diesel torque and smoke.

[theholycow]

The top comment on that video:

Yea, 8.5 sec is about right. I have an stock '84 and the only people who don't pass me up when accelerating from a light these days are Buick drivers.
TurboVW2004 1 month ago

[Maggiolone]

The top comment on that video:

Yea, 8.5 sec is about right. I have an stock '84 and the only people who don't pass me up when accelerating from a light these days are Buick drivers.
TurboVW2004 1 month ago

That's actually my account name. No joke. My other car is the 04 1.8t Jetta.

And I drove a Buick LeSabre for 5 years.

[kayubassist]

Seriously, what's up with people that cannot wait like what 5 seconds in traffic and start honking.
If people are being douches you give them the opposite, be nice to them.

When I stalled my car a few times in traffic, people behind me missed the green light and sometimes missed the light twice. (ie, lost their chance to cross the intersection because by the time I started my car up the light changed back to yellow and red). They would change the lane and stop beside me and give me the look.
I rolled down my window and wave to everyone around me while smiling, and say I'm sorry I'm learning how to drive manual.
Then the very same people who were honking behind me suddenly smile and wave back at me or give me thumbs up.

I used to rip through traffic when I had a GTI with DSG transmission, but now I just cruise slowly in the far right lane and enjoy driving. It gives me time to practice my driving skills.

Take it easy. People can wait (unless they have a pregnant woman about to give birth in their cars).

[bk7794]

Seriously, what's up with people that cannot wait like what 5 seconds in traffic and start honking.
If people are being douches you give them the opposite, be nice to them.

When I stalled my car a few times in traffic, people behind me missed the green light and sometimes missed the light twice. (ie, lost their chance to cross the intersection because by the time I started my car up the light changed back to yellow and red). They would change the lane and stop beside me and give me the look.
I rolled down my window and wave to everyone around me while smiling, and say I'm sorry I'm learning how to drive manual.
Then the very same people who were honking behind me suddenly smile and wave back at me or give me thumbs up.

I used to rip through traffic when I had a GTI with DSG transmission, but now I just cruise slowly in the far right lane and enjoy driving. It gives me time to practice my driving skills.

Take it easy. People can wait (unless they have a pregnant woman about to give birth in their cars).

Sometimes they can't wait if they gotta go to the bathroom...never know. I once had an idiot in a truck pass me in the right lane and almost hit me with his trailer. But once he saw that I had a big guy as my friend he skedaddled as soon as he saw us.

To be honest I wouldn't take a lot of it to heart because you don't know if something is on their mind. I always try to think of it as I am in that guys shoes. Maybe a bad day at work etc. You never know what people are going through.