First Gear Trouble....

[Initial D]

Hello, I have been reading the forums non-stop ever since I have received my 1986 4 speed Pontiac Fiero this previous labor day. I am new to manual transmission cars and I am in need of some assistance. I do understand that when first learning how to drive a manual tranny the two hardest thing to do are starting from first gear (which is what I struggle tremendously at) and starting on a hill. The questions I do have are in regards to driving and I would like to apologize in advance if this has been answered in another post already. I am a novice when it comes to manual transmission vehicles so please excuse my ignorance.

1.) When starting in first gear, is it alright to clutch in completely and ride the "friction point" and gas simultaneously? I heard this is more tougher on the clutch. If not how do I slowly coast in the car? (Ex: Pulling into a driveway, Parking spaces, u-turns, reversing?) without stalling the car and speeding off.

2.) When I stall the car I seem to stall very hard. Where should the rpm be when I am starting the car is first gear? My rpm seem to drop when I ease off the clutch but, I am giving it gas at the same time. I do understand that too much gas will cause a burnout and not enough gas will stall the car. What am I doing wrong?

3.) Is it necessary for me to down shift all the way to first gear even if I am yielding on right turns? It seems when I am yielding in second gear upon acceleration I have really bad car jerking. (happens to me when I am in first gear too). When the car seems to jerk really hard what should I do? It feels like I am riding a bull.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am looking for a nudge in the right direction. I have used resources such as youtube, and google for answers but, I thought it would be best to ask someone from experience who can answer a little more directly. After reading other posts as a guest I am glad to have register. I feel that this is a wonderful community to ask. I appreciate your time and thanks and advance.

[Rope-Pusher]

I think starting from a stop without using the gas pedal will teach you patience, ease your fears of burning out the clutch and also train your foot as to where the friction point is in the stroke of the clutch pedal. Find a quiet place, like an empty parking lot, and just take your time exploring the sounds (turn off your music) and feelings as you practice these no-gas launches.

When you get to the point where the vehicle just starts to move, hesitate your clutch foot - as the speed difference between the clutch disk and the engine narrows, the torque the clutch is transmitting will decrease and so the clutch will decrease it's slippage without your foot rising any higher off the floor.

After you spend more time driving your car, you will develop a finer control of the clutch and throttle. Driving with an automatic transmission can spoil you, because the torque converter will mask abrupt throttle motions.

Does your vehicle have a tachometer? If so, what is the engine speed when you think you maybe should have down shifted? Less than 1000 rpm? Maybe you should have! Give it a try at the same vehicle speed, but in 1st gear, and see if it is smoother. Warn engine mounts or a worn clutch hub damper can also make the car drive real jerkily at low engine speeds. (The hub of the clutch has springs that act under engine torque and a friction damper to dampen the spring motion - like springs and shocks in your chassis suspension smooth out your ride over rough roads)

[Squint]

Welcome! Where are you located (generally, of course...)?

1.) When starting in first gear, is it alright to clutch in completely and ride the "friction point" and gas simultaneously? I heard this is more tougher on the clutch. If not how do I slowly coast in the car? (Ex: Pulling into a driveway, Parking spaces, u-turns, reversing?) without stalling the car and speeding off.

This happens sometimes, and is somewhat unavoidable depending on circumstances. If you can get comfortable with where your car stalls or starts to bog down too much, then you can shift it into first and just use your brakes to slow you down in lots and whatnot with occasional clutch use.

2.) When I stall the car I seem to stall very hard. Where should the rpm be when I am starting the car is first gear? My rpm seem to drop when I ease off the clutch but, I am giving it gas at the same time. I do understand that too much gas will cause a burnout and not enough gas will stall the car. What am I doing wrong?

People typically start their vehicles between 800-1500 rpm, depending on the vehicle and how you like to drive. Each vehicle is different so it is hard to say, "You need to start at 1200 rpm!" without driving your vehicle. If you've read the faq or perused the forums, you've probably seen people refer to no-gas launches. That is a way to familiarize yourself with your clutch and the rpms that your vehicle needs to start on a flat surface. Read the FAQ for more info on it. But if certainly helped me first learn new vehicles and where they need to be when they start.

3.) Is it necessary for me to down shift all the way to first gear even if I am yielding on right turns? It seems when I am yielding in second gear upon acceleration I have really bad car jerking. (happens to me when I am in first gear too). When the car seems to jerk really hard what should I do? It feels like I am riding a bull.

When yielding, are you saying that you are stopping completely? Or just slowing down and coasting? Stopping completely, I almost always go back to first gear because my car (Fiesta) doesn't have a lot of power to correct for being a gear off. However, the Mazda that we have could be started in second gear from a complete stop without giving it much more gas than normal. If your vehicle can handle starting in second, you can. If you are rolling, even at 5 mph, you can probably stay in second and just give it a little more gas than normal. But if you have to come to a complete stop, I would put it back in first gear.

[theholycow]

On the question of downshifting or not: You can also do what we call a "rolling 2nd launch". If you're going a little too slow for smooth use of 2nd gear but you don't want to downshift to 1st, use 2nd gear and don't completely engage the clutch. Instead, slip the clutch and give it a little gas very similar to how you would launch in 1st from a stop.

[tankinbeans]

First, allow me to say welcome.

I am in a similar boat as you and know what you're feeling. I've only been driving my manual since March and still botch something or another every now and then. Lately, I've been practicing listening/feeling for the friction point and can be doing it very well for most of a day and then, when I think I've got it, I'll try to do a quicker start and bang I stall the car. It just takes practice.

Also, I have been asking variations of the same questions with these wonderful people (I hesitate to say guys for fear of offending any women who also know more about driving a manual than I do) for months and they have continued to answer.

Continue asking your questions, and make like you're going to Carnegie Hall and, "Practice, Practice, Practice."

Good luck and have fun!

[Squint]

Continue asking your questions, and make like you're going to Carnegie Hall and, "Practice, Practice, Practice."

Good luck and have fun!

One, well said. Two, Grammar Nazi says, "Informally, guys is gender neutral and can be used to describe both sexes in the plural." Source is the second definition here.

EDIT: ^--- is just for you, Shadow

[kayubassist]

1) This is my greatest concern too. I started driving a manual car only a month ago and I live on a hill. So it is almost unavoidable for me to burn my clutch while learning how to drive manual.
Do you feel some vibration/something similar to grinding feeling on your clutch pedal when launching? This is driving me nuts.
I guess it's just the feel of the friction point?
And downshifting is tricky too. Sometimes I downshift everything is so smooth and sometimes car jerks hard. I thought I would get comfortable driving manual in about a month but no... it will take me at least 5 years. lol

[tankinbeans]

1) This is my greatest concern too. I started driving a manual car only a month ago and I live on a hill. So it is almost unavoidable for me to burn my clutch while learning how to drive manual.
Do you feel some vibration/something similar to grinding feeling on your clutch pedal when launching? This is driving me nuts.
I guess it's just the feel of the friction point?
And downshifting is tricky too. Sometimes I downshift everything is so smooth and sometimes car jerks hard. I thought I would get comfortable driving manual in about a month but no... it will take me at least 5 years. lol

Nope, not 5 years. I'm already comfortable and it's been 6 months. I goof up on stuff periodically, but I don't panic and just move on. One, or two tips for hills that I have used are the handbrake method (I can't remember if anybody has discussed this for your specific thread) where you use your handbrake to hold you until the car moves and then release it. This will prevent you rolling back. The other, which admittedly only works on a car with a tach, is to look at your tach while letting up on the clutch and right when the RPM drop add gas. You don't want to do this forever, but I'm a visual learner so it sometimes helps me. You'll find a comfortabe method with time.

[Rope-Pusher]

First, allow me to say welcome.

I am in a similar boat as you and know what you're feeling.

You guys BOTH got boats with stick shifts? Wall eye bee!

[tankinbeans]

First, allow me to say welcome.

I am in a similar boat as you and know what you're feeling.

You guys BOTH got boats with stick shifts? Wall eye bee!

Yep, mines a nice one with a large W12. I named mine Arthur and I take it around the lake at 130 knots on a regular basis. Sometimes find the FP is a little bit rough since boat had to be adapted to have foot controls. (All numbers are best guesses as I've never quite understood boats).

[Reverence]

First, allow me to say welcome.

I am in a similar boat as you and know what you're feeling.

You guys BOTH got boats with stick shifts? Wall eye bee!

Sum even have goats with stick shifts~

[tankinbeans]

so, called the dealer and he told me to bring the car back for the brake sensor light.

i forgot to mention another item to him that i should of. but, i wish to know if this is common before i say anything to him.

I at times, have trouble putting the car in 1st gear. the rest of the gears are fine, but that first gear!!!! at times, i really have to force it in.

any thoughts.....

Maybe this is a dumb question, but are you trying to put it inot first gear while moving? If so, how fast? Many cars will not allow you to, or will make it very difficult to engage first gear at speeds above 15. Every car is different though, so this is a guess. I believe this is what's known as a gated shifter.

If you are tying to engage this at a dead stop, the synchros could be lined up in such a way as to prevent you dropping it in slowly, much like reverse. If this is the case drop it in second and then try to move into first. This always works for me.

[IMBoring25]

Actually, a gated shifter is one where the shifter pattern is slotted out in the console. Ferrari comes to mind.

As for difficulty shifting to first while moving more than walking speed, there's generally not a positive lockout, but the difficulty is instead due to the amount of work you're asking the synchros to do. Double-clutching is the answer if you really want to do that. At a stop, cycling the clutch also works to align the teeth. Otherwise, that shift is generally easiest a little below walking speed.

[theholycow]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but are you trying to put it inot first gear while moving?

crishmac is trying to put it in 1st gear while spamming advertisements of .net training in ahmedabad. That's the major cause of his problem.

The post was pasted from http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/ ... 997-a.html

[tankinbeans]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but are you trying to put it inot first gear while moving?

crishmac is trying to put it in 1st gear while spamming advertisements of .net training in ahmedabad. That's the major cause of his problem.

The post was pasted from http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/ ... 997-a.html

How do you catch all the robots? First Tiya, that I've seen, now this?

RE: gated shifter above, thank you whoever posted. Now I learned something else. I apologize as I can't remember your SN and am on my phone.