Lunging (jerking) forward in first gear...:-/

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How do you "creep" forward in stop-and-go traffic?

I use the clutch (letting it out a little bit, then pushing it back in).
15
83%
I wait until I have enough space ahead of me to put the car completely in gear.
3
17%
 
Total votes: 18

wvpoochi
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Lunging (jerking) forward in first gear...:-/

Post by wvpoochi »

I just bought a 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5 XT (turbo-charged, 250HP) 5-speed and I'm learing how to drive a manual transmission. I have actually driven quite a few different manuals in my day but never for extended periods of time or over long distances so I never really learned how to drive them well.

The only problem I ever have is starting out in first from a dead stop (of course, you've all heard that one before, haha). My specific problem though is that I either get a "lungy" jerky motion until the car smooths out or a complete stall. I just spent almost an hour in a vacant parking lot and 12:30AM with the windows down (to listen to the engine) and I just can't get a nice smooth start to save my life!! I've tried giving it more gas. I've tried giving it less gas. I've tried letting the clutch out slower. I've tried letting the cluthch out fast. And many permutations of the last four statements. Nothing works!! Is the only way to solve this to have a zen-master MT driver sitting right next to me? Or am I SOL? If I continue these kind of starts (provided my description is good enough for your too even understand what I mean, haha) for an extended period of time will it ruin my clutch/transmission?

Okay, maybe I did get a few nice starts, but 5 good starts out of like the 100 I did ain't too great! I don't think that I'm buring up the clutch because I know that "sulfury" smell you get and I never smelled that once. So I don't think there is any slipping involved in what I'm doing wrong.

I have asked at least 10 of my friends that drive manuals and they say you just have to get used to the car. Well, come on, I've had this thing for almost a month now and I think I should have figured this out by now. Is there any one out there that can just give me a straight answer as to what I'm doing that makes the car jerk forward (it does it like 2 or 3 times before smoothing out btw)???? Please, I'm getting desperate. There must be someone who has come across this. Oh, and it happens in reverse too!! It never happens in any of the other gears. Does it have anything to do with how much horse power it has? I've never driven a MT with this much horse power so maybe that's why I had never experienced it in the other cars I have driven. Has anyone with higher HP car had this happen?

I also have another question regarding engine noises. I noticed tonight (while I was failing to learn how to not make my car jerk forward) that there is a slight "ringing"/"tinging" sound coming from my under-carriage (I would think it's the clutch) when I give it gas while letting the clutch out in first. Is this a normal sound? Have I already ruined my clutch? Is it because I'm giving it too much gas/too little? Is this a sign that I am in fact burning up the clutch even though I don't smell anything bad?

Another question: When in stop-and-go traffic I usually use the clutch to "creep" forward. Meaning that I let the clutch out just a little (maybe a little gas too but not always) to get it moving then push it back in, repeatedly. Is this a bad thing to do? Can I burn out the clutch like that? Is it better to wait until you can completely put the car in gear? I have created a poll (above) for your convenience.

One more question I promise! I noticed when I have a 2-4 extra people in the car it *completely* screws up my shifting and I have to re-learn all over again when to shift. Obviously this is because of the added weight, but what is the best way to over come this? Should I simply bring the car to higher RPMs (make a higher top-speed) before shifting to the next gear? Should I give it more gas before letting the clutch out in the next gear?

If anyone responds to this poll THANK YOU SO MUCH. I don't know where else to turn...please help!!
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VTECaddict
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Post by VTECaddict »

the sulfury smell (like rotten eggs) is most likely from the catalytic converter. its normal for many new cars, and it may get better or worse depending on the gas you use or how hard you drive it. usually it goes away altogether after a while.

whenever you are using the clutch, you are slipping it. that's just how it works.

it doesnt take much to get the car completely in gear. usually about 5mph you can be in 1st with the clutch all the way out. but in stop and go traffic, you would usually have to clutch in and brake immediately after. i just do whatever it takes to keep the distance from the car in front of me the same. here in CA if you have a carlength or more in front of you in stop and go freeway traffic, that space will be filled up in the blink of an eye.
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Post by Johnf514 »

Starting from a dead stop is the hardest thing to do in a manual. Let's review.

Clutch in, 1st gear, clutch out slowly to friction point, allow car to start rolling, clutch out slowly till complete, add gas.

This method should work for your car along with any traditional manual (excluding big rigs, towing, and on a hill).

The best advice I can give you is to concentrate on your clutching for now, without applying any gas until the clutch is completely out. That way you can learn how to smoothly release the clutch and where your friction point really is. A lot of newbies will get the car rolling, get excited and kinda let off the clutch so the car jerks into gear.

Also, remember that a manual is going to be a little jerky. That's just how they are; jerks. :wink:

The heavier your car is (people, towing, etc.) the more RPMs you'll need to get going from a start. Just a little gas will do, no more then 200-300 RPM over your idle. Be gentle with your gas. If not, you'll burn up that clutch fast.

Could that whine be the turbo? I don't have much experience in that realm, but I know they do tend to whine a bit. Then again, I need they are only activiated under high RPMs.

By the way, you have a new car, so no highway (60+ MPH) or high RPMs until you've driven it nicely for 1000+ miles. If you break in that engine nicely, it'll last you a decade.

Back to your jerkiness (not you, the car!) when you are shifting up through gears, you need to catch the right RPM for the next gear as you shift. Example:

2nd-3rd shift.

Going 25 MPH at 3000 RPM
Shift to 3rd should be about 2200 RPMs.

If the engine drops below that, you'll feel a jerk because the engine (flywheel) and the wheels (clutch) are spinning at different speeds. The same applies for downshifting, but we won't get into that right now.

Keep practicing, good luck, and remember, be nice for 1000 miles!
:wink:
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Post by coolguy »

:shock: Wow I hope u are ok wvpoochi.

By the way I heard Subaru 2.5 XT is hard for the beginners to try to learn :?: Is that true anyone :?: If it is, then don't blame yourself wvpoochi :wink:.

The old posts and the FAQ should also give u a lot of help. Have fun :mrgreen:!
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Post by ReckLess »

i used the clutch in heavy traffic:(.. it kinda hurts.. heheh.. but i plan my route so i won't be stuck in traffic..
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Re: Lunging (jerking) forward in first gear...:-/

Post by psyral »

wvpoochi wrote:If I continue these kind of starts (provided my description is good enough for your too even understand what I mean, haha) for an extended period of time will it ruin my clutch/transmission?
Doubt it. You have a new [turbo] car. Almost all internals are beefed up (relatively speaking when compared to an N/A) to handle the power. So don't worry too much about it.
wvpoochi wrote:Okay, maybe I did get a few nice starts, but 5 good starts out of like the 100 I did ain't too great! I don't think that I'm buring up the clutch because I know that "sulfury" smell you get and I never smelled that once. So I don't think there is any slipping involved in what I'm doing wrong.
I think we all start this way. And there's almost always slipping involved during a 1-2 shift for beginners. Hell, sometimes I slip at 1-2 especially when I have passengers aboard.
wvpoochi wrote:I have asked at least 10 of my friends that drive manuals and they say you just have to get used to the car. Well, come on, I've had this thing for almost a month now and I think I should have figured this out by now.
I think you should keep practicing late at night with the windows down. Every night, to make the friction point second nature.
wvpoochi wrote:Is there any one out there that can just give me a straight answer as to what I'm doing that makes the car jerk forward (it does it like 2 or 3 times before smoothing out btw)???? Please, I'm getting desperate. There must be someone who has come across this. Oh, and it happens in reverse too!! It never happens in any of the other gears. Does it have anything to do with how much horse power it has? I've never driven a MT with this much horse power so maybe that's why I had never experienced it in the other cars I have driven. Has anyone with higher HP car had this happen?
2-3 times? A jerk should only happen once before the ride becomes smooth. That normally happens when you finish your shift at idle speed (RPMs fall down either too fast, or you're not shifting fast enough-- that the RPM go down to the idle RPM, then when you clutch out you get a jerk). Have you tried driving around with your friends' MTX cars? You might have to get some driving time with theirs.
wvpoochi wrote:I also have another question regarding engine noises. I noticed tonight (while I was failing to learn how to not make my car jerk forward) that there is a slight "ringing"/"tinging" sound coming from my under-carriage (I would think it's the clutch) when I give it gas while letting the clutch out in first. Is this a normal sound? Have I already ruined my clutch? Is it because I'm giving it too much gas/too little? Is this a sign that I am in fact burning up the clutch even though I don't smell anything bad?
It's not the turbo spool up you're hearing? I've read of "clutch-chatter" from subaru owners, but i wouldn't think it has the sound you're describing. You might want to research into that. It could shed some light on your clutching probs.
wvpoochi wrote:Another question: When in stop-and-go traffic I usually use the clutch to "creep" forward. Meaning that I let the clutch out just a little (maybe a little gas too but not always) to get it moving then push it back in, repeatedly. Is this a bad thing to do? Can I burn out the clutch like that? Is it better to wait until you can completely put the car in gear? I have created a poll (above) for your convenience.
That's how I practiced to get the friction point 2nd nature. While I'd wait for the time to turn green, I make sure I have at least half a car of space between the car in front of me. I clutch out slowly until the car begins to move a little bit, then clutch back in. I did this a lot. It wears out the clutch a bit, but if it saves a lot of wear in the long run, I knew I had to do it :)
wvpoochi wrote:One more question I promise! I noticed when I have a 2-4 extra people in the car it *completely* screws up my shifting and I have to re-learn all over again when to shift. Obviously this is because of the added weight, but what is the best way to over come this? Should I simply bring the car to higher RPMs (make a higher top-speed) before shifting to the next gear? Should I give it more gas before letting the clutch out in the next gear?
Just shift at a higher RPM to make up for the added weight. I actually drive better with 3-4 passengers than having just 1 (for some odd reason). I guess it's the weight distribution. Just make sure you start gassing just before releasing the clutch (so the RPMs don't go down too low, then jerking or nudging when you complete the shift).

My suggestions:
1. LOTS of drive time: practice practice practice
2. Sit much closer to the steering wheel (you might not know this but this one seems to solve a lot of clutch problems beginners have :wink: )
3. When finishing a shift, make sure to throttle first just before clutching out-- especially if you have an ETB (eletronic throttle body) like me!
4. Drive with a clear mind (don't think about the tips and crap-- do that before you start driving)
5. Have fun!
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Thanks!

Post by wvpoochi »

Thanks for all the tips! You rule! Special thanks to psyral & Johnf514 for their extended posts!

I'll definitely keep in mind everything mentioned. I noticed last night while driving that my car needs no gas whatsoever to actually get moving on a *flat* surface. And there is no jerking motion!!! I think maybe I've figured it out! As long as I let the clutch out nice and easy with no added gas my car takes off perfectly every time! Even in reverse! Haha, of course, this doesn't work on a hill so I'm still going to have to work that one out.

psyral - You mentioned that I should just enjoy my new car too. You're absolutely right. I took it out today and just enjoyed the driving experience for once instead of trying to think about my shifting ALL the time. It was fun! I suppose I should get some ejoyment out of my car before I ruin it!!! LOL

I actually drove pretty darn well today too...hmmm...maybe I'm just thinking about all the technicals too much instead of *just driving*!

Thanks again everyone!

P.S. Please feel free to leave more tips - anybody!
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Post by coolguy »

Glad to know u feel better. And u are welcome :wink:.
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Re: Thanks!

Post by Johnf514 »

wvpoochi wrote:Thanks for all the tips! You rule! Special thanks to psyral & Johnf514 for their extended posts!
Thanks again everyone!
Anytime big guy, keep up the good work. :D
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Post by jcprov21 »

VTECaddict wrote:i just do whatever it takes to keep the distance from the car in front of me the same. here in CA if you have a carlength or more in front of you in stop and go freeway traffic, that space will be filled up in the blink of an eye.
Very true. I just recently moved to Morro Bay from Roseville where I thought the driving was bad. Now during the summer here it is even worse, tourisits everywhere driving around trying to find where they are going. I really hate it when grannys get around you and then get in front and go 10mph slower than you want to go, thats where my dads truck the 2000 Dodge Dakota 5.9 R/T comes in handy :lol:
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Post by psyral »

You're welcome. I thought I was overdue for a long post :) Let us know how it feels then the turbo's spooled at 3rd!





... i miss my GS-T and the sound of spooling :(
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Re: Thanks!

Post by andymcgav »

wvpoochi wrote: I actually drove pretty darn well today too...hmmm...maybe I'm just thinking about all the technicals too much instead of *just driving*!
My brother always used to tell me the same thing when I was learning: "You're not as bad as you think you are...shut up and drive!!!". haha. It worked though, when I didn't concentrate on shifting I shifted better. Weird :D.

One learning problem I had was that I would always do really well at night, then get pressured and mess up during the day (especially stop and start traffic on hills). I guess the best advice I can give is to stay relaxed always, cuz my shifting always got much much worse when I was nervous, angry, or pressured. Good luck!
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Post by Johnf514 »

jcprov21 wrote: thats where my dads truck the 2000 Dodge Dakota 5.9 R/T comes in handy :lol:
And his charge card to fill it up every day? :wink:

Is it a stick? That may bump you into the double-digit MPG range. :P
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