Advice needed - new manual driver with abrupt/grabby clutch

[Jon2000]

Wow! Something seems to have clicked in the last couple weeks. I've been so much more consistent and confident lately and seem to have found that balance of throttle and clutch that I've been looking for (starts have been fairly quick and smooth at ~1000rpm). I can't believe how much the movements have to minimized in this car for it to be smooth. I'm barely touching the gas ..if I feel the pedal move then I've pushed to far ...same with the clutch ..it has to be eased out at the friction point ...if I feel my foot move then I've released too fast. The upshifts are quicker and more smooth now as well after realizing how light of a touch I need to have on the throttle. I hope my mind is finally letting my muscle memory take over at last. I'd like to work on fast low rpm launches and being smoother/using less throttle on inclines/hill starts.

Thanks for your help along the way!

[RITmusic2k]

Atta boy! Keep it up and before too long, it'll feel to you like that's the way a throttle was always supposed to be. Enjoy your new skill set!

[LHOswald]

Enjoy your new skill set!

skill set will always keep you safe...

[Jon2000]

A girl at work recently picked up a 2010 Subaru WRX STI and let me take it for a spin today. The friction point was short like my Mazdaspeed3 but the clutch was very linear and engaged close to the floor and the gas pedal was perfect - nice and solid while not being too sensitive. I found the STI easier to drive smooth than my own Mazdaspeed3.

[six]

I envy you

[Jon2000]

I hate to post this ...BUT ....I'm wondering if my car and I don't get along. There are times when I drive my car so perfectly I wonder how I ever had any trouble with it. I've become so focused on becoming a master standard shifter in my car that I am over-thinking all the time when I drive (OCD about this). I'm not as consistent as I'd like to be and sometimes feel I have to adapt to my car even though I just drove it the day before. Nothing other than take-offs give me issues....it seems I can't get consistent getting the relationship between the gas and clutch. If I go slow and take my time my launches can be quick and smooth at 1000 rpm but it requires a lot of concentration and finesse with the throttle and clutch ...other times I seem to put too much pressure on the gas pedal (without feeling the pedal move) while releasing the clutch and the revs climb and other times I lift my foot a little too quick and the tight clutch spring pops my foot through the tiny friction point (before pressing the gas) and I jerk into 1st gear. The more I get frustrated the worse I do (I'm a poor sport at failing haha). This makes me feel like a total nOOb since I've had the car for a year now. I can't use the excuse that everyone else drives my car like crap because I think I've had enough seat time in it that I shouldn't even be posting this. I don't take off like crap every time but it's enough that I'm wondering why I can't get this to become self conscious. Any help or encouragement would be appreciated ...or just tell me to quit driving manual. LOL

[AHTOXA]

I literally went through the same thing as you are describing. There will be times when you will be very frustrated. The more you overthink, the worse your driving will be.

Do what you are doing now, keep driving and it will no longer be an issue.

Been there myself.

[AHTOXA]

Looking back at it, it took me about a year and over 20000 miles to be consistent and happy with my technique. However I have stopped overthinking it way before that. It's a phase.

[theholycow]

Try not to think about it, just let your body do the work.

Plant your entire foot on the entire accelerator pedal rather than toeing the edge, especially if it's bottom-hinged.

[Rope-Pusher]

^ ^ ^ If thigh left foot offends thee, lay it across the railroad tracks and wait for the train to pass over it, for it is better to have a good excuse for not driving Amish than to never get the hang of it.

There are some interesting games that go in with engine calibration software. To help out emissions or mileage, it can play with spark advance, Fuel/Air ratio and even the amount of air bypassing the throttle plate. Depending on where it is on the warm-up curve, how hard you were just driving it, etc. can change how robust the engine idle is, so sometimes, when it seems to stall easily, it really does stall all-too easily.

Now do you feel better? Good. Hop back over to the railroad tracks, collect your foot, give 911 a call and see what miracles modern medicine can perform.

[six]

The amount of thinking is inversely proportional to how well you drive. The more you think about it, the worse off you are. You have to let your body take over. If you don't think about it, your body and mind actually adapts to the car. When you think, you override this process, and you take over what muscle-memory should be doing.

[Rope-Pusher]

^ same reason stutterers stutter - an overly-sensitive feed-back loop. That's why singing or varying the pitch of their voice helps them not to stutter.

[zaf]

As far as know, the clutch can be classified by the height of the friction point, but from the friction point to the top, it should be always effective to slip. So why do you guys have this kind of clutch ==||=== instead of ==|||||

If you guys really have this kind of clutch, which part makes this happen?

Thanks

[RITmusic2k]

That'll be a function of the coefficient of friction of the clutch material, and of the amount of clamping force the pressure plate can provide. If you have a clutch that's not particularly grippy (most straight-from-factory clutches are some type of organic material similar to typical brake pads) and a pressure plate that's not too strong, then you can expect a pretty wide range in which the clutch will still slip. If you have a kevlar or carbon clutch and an uprated pressure plate, then you can expect the clutch to mate up very quickly, before full pressure is even applied to it (meaning, you're still partway through the release, but the clutch pedal is not all the way up).

To answer your question of why the latter is considered 'better': It sorta depends on what purpose your car serves. If it's just a commuting appliance, then some of these factors won't come into play; if it's a car you intend to race or drive enthusiastically, then all these things should be considered.

Okay, first: slipping equals wear. Any time your clutch pedal is released, there is absolutely zero wear on the clutch disk. So, from a practical standpoint, a driver should want his clutch to slip the minimum amount possible for him to comfortably perform a shift. If you're a novice with terrible foot control, then a clutch with a wider slip range will be more forgiving but it won't last as long. The better you get at modulating your clutch and throttle, the less slippage you'll incur and all that extra 'slip room' will go wasted and unused. If you're a standardshifting master with excellent rev-matching skills, you don't want your clutch to slip at all.

Because second: slipping takes time. I've been bitching lately about the clutch delay valve in my new car, because it artificially creates a large slip zone every time I release the pedal. I'm not used to this, so I often start applying power through the driveline before everything is all synced up, which can burn out a clutch prematurely. Conversely, I have to wait a beat or two before applying throttle, which interrupts smooth and consistent acceleration through the gears.

Neither of these outcomes is something I really enjoy. It's very nice to know that as soon as you've passed your friction point, you can release past the remainder of pedal travel and apply power right away. Ideally, once more, you want the clutch spending as little time slipping as possible. You either want it quickly disengaged, or quickly engaged. You create smoothness with throttle control, not by loosening the connection between the engine and wheels.

Third: All that 'dead travel' as you continue to release the clutch pedal past the end of its friction zone represents increased clamping force from the pressure plate. If your pressure plate provides 2,000lbs of clamping force with the pedal fully released, but the clutch syncs up with 1,500lbs of clamping force which happens to correspond to being halfway through pedal travel, then all the extra force beyond that sync-up point makes it harder for the engine to overpower the clutch. It's a buffer zone of sorts if you ever intend to modify your car to make more power.

That third point is less of a concern for most vehicles out there, since most cars will only ever make stock power, and those cars have been engineered with the proper safety margins in place.

[zaf]

If the clutch is like the first case, rest your foot on the clutch will make no wear, right? Because there is a space.