Alarm systems - Factory Vs. Dealer installs

[DriedMoss]

When I purchased my 2008 Nissan 350Z. The dealer said they installed a better security system and would deactivate it unless I purchased it. The factory installed alarm only activates when the doors are forced open. The "better" dealer installed alarm triggered from seismic disturbances (broken glass, chassis tampering, etc.)

I decided not to pay their asking price and they deactivated the system with a chip (leaving me with the factory installed alarm)

What gives?

If the system is activated/deactivated via a chipset, can I just purchase a new chip and get the upgrade at a later time?

[watkins]

Its more likely than not a setting activated by a manufacturer scan tool. Very few things are actually chips these days. Get access to a manufacturer scan tool and be amazed with the settings you can change.

[theholycow]

I would have deactivated my transaction with them if they operated that way.

[FDSpirit]

I would have deactivated my transaction with them if they operated that way.

I'm with you. I know there are "dealer installed" options, and I'm sure an alarm fits into that category. Why would they install it and then disable it unless you bought it?(assuming everything else was already taken care of in terms of sale) . That's pretty scuzzy in that case if you ask me. You can go with Watkins' idea, which I'm sure is cheaper than that option. If they never installed it in the first place, I'd just say take it somewhere else and get a better one. But now that there is something there, you're probably just better off finding a tool to fiddle around with said components.

[AHTOXA]

I would have deactivated my transaction with them if they operated that way.

Count me in, too.

As far as the issue at hand, I do not believe that the Z comes with a factory alarm that detects seismic disturbances. If this is a dealer-installed option then it's likely that additional hardware was needed. If so, they would not install it and not sell it to you or tell you they can "deactivate it" via coding or programming the ECU.

I just don't think it would make sense for them to install it and then just give it to you deactivated. They might as well just leave in on and "throw it in" the sale.

That's my personal opinion simply based on what I've seen in the past.

[Rope-Pusher]

"We cheat the other guy and pass the savings along to YOU!"

I think they never installed anything. They were just trying to push you for some extra prophet. I wonder if they were planning to play the odds that your car doesn't get broken into and were never intending to install anything.

[eggwich delfiero]

Tons of dealerships pre-install alarms on all their cars and only bring it up as part of the sale once the deal is half closed. And it makes sense for them to have alarms on their cars, as they don't want them stolen off the lot. Karr Alarms are one of the most common brands around here and probably in many areas, and opinions on their quality vary by the actual model installed. I know this because I've researched this topic a bit as I ended up(was suckered into) purchasing a dealership alarm. You don't have to buy the alarm, as it seems you didn't, so I think calling it a scam is a bit harsh. And I would assume it's an aftermarket installation, as I can't see a dealership controlling the level of an alarm installed by the manufacturer, as they would be eating the cost of that option (don't know for sure, though.)

Find out the (potential) features of your alarm, find out what features you want, compare it to alarms on the free market, and make a choice. Only way to go about it. Uninstalling the current alarm may bump up your install cost a bit, tho you may be able to get the dealership to take it off.

I wanted to go with Teh Club, til I saw how soft and cuttable my steering wheel is, so I went with the Karr Alarm. I don't regret buying it, but I do regret not comparing it with the open market options and not bartering the price down. Shit, I spent two hours talking price on my car, why not fifteen minutes on the alarm? I spent 700 bucks on a product worth about 250. Derp!

And for god's sake don't buy one of those shitty Viper alarms. Whoooooop, whooooop, wonk wonk wonk wonk, deeeeee-doooooo, deeeeeee-doooooo, repeat ad nauseum.

[VTECaddict]

IMO, alarms are more annoying than useful. A blinking LED has about as much theft deterrence as an actual alarm system, without the annoying false alarms.

[eggwich delfiero]

IMO, alarms are more annoying than useful. A blinking LED has about as much theft deterrence as an actual alarm system, without the annoying false alarms.

I think there's a lot of truth to this. A blinking LED and a sticker on the window are the most effective components of any alarm system.

[eggwich delfiero]

^ I don't think you can set a factory key fob to an alarm/s radio signal/frequency/whatever, but I believe you can set an alarm to receive the signal already being used by your factory key fob. And yes, kinda talking out of my ass here. But I don't think they installed the alarm on my car during the half hour it was out of my sight to wash it.

[theholycow]

You can hook up aftermarket alarms and remote starters to factory fob systems, but it's not by setting the new system to receive a signal from the fob. Instead, it gets triggered by an auxiliary output wire on the OEM system.

Tons of dealerships pre-install alarms on all their cars and only bring it up as part of the sale once the deal is half closed. And it makes sense for them to have alarms on their cars, as they don't want them stolen off the lot.

Installing a common consumer-type alarm won't do them any good, just like it won't for the consumer, because people ignore them. Dealers used to have alarms that hooked on to the window, but I don't know that I've seen one in a while.

I think that for the most part, dealers don't have to worry much. They tend to have surveillance cameras and thieves know that. I wouldn't be surprised if they had something that they put in the car that keeps radio contact with a central unit in the building, and it alerts them when the car is driven off the lot. That would be far more effective than a screaming alarm.

You don't have to buy the alarm, as it seems you didn't, so I think calling it a scam is a bit harsh.

Not a scam, but a scummy semi-high-pressure sales tactic. It would seriously turn me off. I'd tell them to activate it for free or I'm walking out and taking my money elsewhere...since they've supposedly already eaten the cost it's not like they'll be willing to give up a sale.

And I would assume it's an aftermarket installation, as I can't see a dealership controlling the level of an alarm installed by the manufacturer, as they would be eating the cost of that option (don't know for sure, though.)

Well, they said that they plan on eating the cost. However, it's not hard to adjust manufacturer-installed alarms and other gizmos; plug in the diagnostic computer whatsit, press some buttons, change car's behavior. If you have a VW you can buy what you need for $200 and adjust all kinds of stuff, including alarm behavior.

And for god's sake don't buy one of those shitty Viper alarms. Whoooooop, whooooop, wonk wonk wonk wonk, deeeeee-doooooo, deeeeeee-doooooo, repeat ad nauseum.

What sound does your alarm make?

[Rope-Pusher]

You can hook up aftermarket alarms and remote starters to factory fob systems, but it's not by setting the new system to receive a signal from the fob. Instead, it gets triggered by an auxiliary output wire on the OEM system.

Tons of dealerships pre-install alarms on all their cars and only bring it up as part of the sale once the deal is half closed. And it makes sense for them to have alarms on their cars, as they don't want them stolen off the lot.

Installing a common consumer-type alarm won't do them any good, just like it won't for the consumer, because people ignore them. Dealers used to have alarms that hooked on to the window, but I don't know that I've seen one in a while.

I think that for the most part, dealers don't have to worry much. They tend to have surveillance cameras and thieves know that. I wouldn't be surprised if they had something that they put in the car that keeps radio contact with a central unit in the building, and it alerts them when the car is driven off the lot. That would be far more effective than a screaming alarm.

You don't have to buy the alarm, as it seems you didn't, so I think calling it a scam is a bit harsh.

Not a scam, but a scummy semi-high-pressure sales tactic. It would seriously turn me off. I'd tell them to activate it for free or I'm walking out and taking my money elsewhere...since they've supposedly already eaten the cost it's not like they'll be willing to give up a sale.

And I would assume it's an aftermarket installation, as I can't see a dealership controlling the level of an alarm installed by the manufacturer, as they would be eating the cost of that option (don't know for sure, though.)

Well, they said that they plan on eating the cost. However, it's not hard to adjust manufacturer-installed alarms and other gizmos; plug in the diagnostic computer whatsit, press some buttons, change car's behavior. If you have a VW you can buy what you need for $200 and adjust all kinds of stuff, including alarm behavior.

And for god's sake don't buy one of those shitty Viper alarms. Whoooooop, whooooop, wonk wonk wonk wonk, deeeeee-doooooo, deeeeeee-doooooo, repeat ad nauseum.

What sound does your alarm make?

"Get away from my ride, muffa, before I pop a cap in yo aas!"

[theholycow]

Don't most dealerships park two cars across their entrance gates after closing? That's what I see around here; seems like one would have to drag both of those cars out of the way before they could get to any of the other cars.

Yeah, that too...I guess someone could just steal one of those, though.

[eggwich delfiero]

You can hook up aftermarket alarms and remote starters to factory fob systems, but it's not by setting the new system to receive a signal from the fob. Instead, it gets triggered by an auxiliary output wire on the OEM system.

That makes sense. Same result.

Tons of dealerships pre-install alarms on all their cars and only bring it up as part of the sale once the deal is half closed. And it makes sense for them to have alarms on their cars, as they don't want them stolen off the lot.

Installing a common consumer-type alarm won't do them any good, just like it won't for the consumer, because people ignore them. Dealers used to have alarms that hooked on to the window, but I don't know that I've seen one in a while.

I think that for the most part, dealers don't have to worry much. They tend to have surveillance cameras and thieves know that. I wouldn't be surprised if they had something that they put in the car that keeps radio contact with a central unit in the building, and it alerts them when the car is driven off the lot. That would be far more effective than a screaming alarm.

I don't see how video surveillance would help, either, unless someone is monitoring it in real time or there is one fixed entrance/exit the perp needs to use. It's not hard to wear a hat and park across the street. Around here, dealerships often tend to be zoned/grouped together in the same area, and hire private security to patrol multiple dealerships (I applied for that as a second job a while back, lol.) So an audible alarm may serve a purpose at a dealership, more so than on the streets where no one gives a crap. (And really, on the street, I'm more worried about the crackhead breaking in to steal stuff, not the car, and some of them may be scared off by the blinking LED, but many are so out of it they break into anything.)

You don't have to buy the alarm, as it seems you didn't, so I think calling it a scam is a bit harsh.

Not a scam, but a scummy semi-high-pressure sales tactic. It would seriously turn me off. I'd tell them to activate it for free or I'm walking out and taking my money elsewhere...since they've supposedly already eaten the cost it's not like they'll be willing to give up a sale.

Yeah, it definitely verges on scummy and preys on the "oh-my-god I just got a car what's a few more dollars?" mentality. They CAN uninstall the system, which is a pain in the ass for them, which is what gives you more leverage to bargain on the cost of the system or the cost of the car; it's a legitimate reason for delaying the sale a day. Wish I would've done so. Ahhh, regret is a bitch.

And I would assume it's an aftermarket installation, as I can't see a dealership controlling the level of an alarm installed by the manufacturer, as they would be eating the cost of that option (don't know for sure, though.)

Well, they said that they plan on eating the cost. However, it's not hard to adjust manufacturer-installed alarms and other gizmos; plug in the diagnostic computer whatsit, press some buttons, change car's behavior. If you have a VW you can buy what you need for $200 and adjust all kinds of stuff, including alarm behavior.[/quote]

At least for Ford, a security system is an installed option package; either it's there or it isn't. And of course you can adjust the sensitivities of alarms, but you can't upgrade from Security Package A to SP A+ (again, at least for teh Ford.) The added features of an aftermarket plugged into an OEM system I would think wouldn't be adjustable via an ECM unit, but they do allow you to mod sensitivities/functions through their own systems. (at least in my experience.)

And for god's sake don't buy one of those shitty Viper alarms. Whoooooop, whooooop, wonk wonk wonk wonk, deeeeee-doooooo, deeeeeee-doooooo, repeat ad nauseum.

What sound does your alarm make?

Mine starts with like five stutter honks then goes into the annoying honk/lightflash combo. It gives the stutter honks too on soft impact as a warning without going all noise party in your face. It's still annoying, but not as annoying as the Viper song. I still pretty much hate it, though. Overpriced piece of crap.

I f#cking hate formatting multiple embedded quotes.

If you all want to read my drivel in the future, you may have to put up with some ugly, confusing formatting.

[FDSpirit]

Don't most dealerships park two cars across their entrance gates after closing? That's what I see around here; seems like one would have to drag both of those cars out of the way before they could get to any of the other cars.

Yeah, that too...I guess someone could just steal one of those, though.

The Chevy/Pontiac dealership around here isn't like that. My friend and I went there on a Sunday after they closed and they had the doors to the GTOs, G8s, and a Mazda3 all unlocked. The 3 was a manual and if we could have pushed it out into the street if we wanted to, but we'd obviously run the risk of having his car plate and our faces being caught on tape. But there are folks dumb enough to forget about the cameras.