2007 Honda Civic Hybrid

[scionkid]

I work at a forensic lab and we were disassembling the back seat of a rental Civic Hybrid. It was a good opportunity to drop off my own car for its 120k service. I drove rental home and put about 180 miles on it.

Handling - 2
This is sad that a Honda product gets a 2, but there are way more entertaining compact cars in terms of handling. The steering was heavy at speed but vague. There was no change in effort once I turned it off center. I wouldn't mind it so much if the steering is lighter. But there's no point in having a heavy steering wheel when it doesn't offer road feel. Even my Toyota varies its steering effort based on cornering load. One redeeming feature is the double wishbone rear suspension. It keeps the cambers at correct angles. It corners at high speed without squealing tires like a school girl. Rough road while cornering does not faze it a bit.

Ride and comfort - 5
Firm cushion with supportive seats. You'll feel the bumps but you'll hear it more. It the ride is no where harsh. Loved the automatic climate control, in a Civic. There's no telescoping wheel but it didn't bother me. The one fault I can find is that the tires were loud on the freeway. But that's excusable as this car needs low rolling resistance tires with those stiff rubbers.

Practicality - 2
Part of the trunk is taken up by the batteries and the rear seats don't fold. With the driver seat adjusted for me, I barely fit in the backseat without my knees rubbing the front seat. Except for width, it felt no bigger than the Fit. Speaking of which, I drive a wagon so I think sedans are very impractical. But if the Europeans can get a 5 door Civic, we should too in America. Toyota, Mazda, and Hyundai are selling wagons. I wonder why Honda doesn't.

Quality - 5
Despite having 56k miles on it and after multiple drivers having their ways with it, the car felt solid. No a hint of rattling was heard. Nothing inside felt flimpsy, not even after I disassembled and reassembled the back seat.

Propulsion - 2.5
This is not a Camaro and I don't expect it to be fast. Mandatory CVT worked well once the car gets going. Push the go pedal and you don't feel a kick in the back. Rather, it surged ahead and goes faster than you want before you know it. I just don't have faith in a belt that is constantly disengaging and engaging the two pulleys. I don't want to find out how much it'll cost when the belt and pulleys wear out -- this isn't a Vespa transmission.

What I really did not like was how the transmission behaved at low speed. This is a hybrid whose engine sometimes stops as you come to a stop. But you don't know when it happens unless you pay attention. There were times I wasn't using enough brake pedal pressure and there were times I use too much. A smooth stop in a regular manual is accomplished by a slight ease of the brake pedal as you come to a stop. But you can't really do that with this thing unless you know it had stopped its engine as you're coasting to a stop. There's a dash indicator light for that. But I really should be looking outside the car, especially when I'm on my brakes.

When you take your foot off of the brake, the engine refires. But it takes half a beat before the transmission is engaged. This car uses a multiplate clutch instead of a torque converter. When the clutch engages, it does so rather abruptly. Also, when you're creeping at about 2 to 4 mph, it alternately engage and disengages the clutch. I would prefer Honda to just simply let it slip, considering that it's a wet clutch.

Fun - 2
Fun is when you're participating instead of just being along for the ride. You can't really make this car does what you want. You can only guess what it wants to do and hope that it does that. This is a car for people who don't really care about cars.

Fuel Economy - 3
I averaged about 45 mpg for my 180 mile drive. I can do 35 to 40 mpg in my xB. I live at 200ft elevation. My commute takes me to the beach then up 900ft. As this thing went up hill, the CVT selected a lower ratio just like any automatic transmission would. Had it been a stick shift hybrid, I would have kept it in a high gear and use the electric assist before I rev up the engine. On the other hand, it starts to regenerate as soon as you release the go pedal. You get more regeneration at higher speed. Touch the brake and you immediately get regeneration. Release the gas early enough and you can go from highway speed to about 10 mph on regeneration alone.

Overall - 2
This is about the worst Honda I've ever driven. None of that legendary Honda handling is present. The CVT is as dumb as any automatic. And the sedan body has got to go. This car is nothing but a statement. If Honda is serious about offering an easy on gas, practical car, it should offer a Civic hatch hybrid with a 6 speed stick -- the same transmission the CRZ will have.

[theholycow]

Going off topic in the first reply...yeah that's how I roll.

I work at a forensic lab and we were disassembling the back seat of a rental Civic Hybrid.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Are we talking like CSI-style lab? What do you do?

Was the rental used to see how a Civic Hybrid comes apart, for reference in an investigation involving another Civic Hybrid?

[scionkid]

We generally work for lawyers and insurance adjusters as accident reconstructionists. We are primarily concerned with auto accidents, trips and falls, and other stuff. We are engineers and we are concerned with biomechanics and vehicle dynamics. We do not do fingerprints or DNA testing. On rare occasions, we do criminal investigations (e.g. someone trip and fell out of a balcony, we want to know if there's pushing involved). Someone claimed that the Civic's rear seat metal frame was bent as a result of a rear end collision. We wanted to know how much it took to bend it.

[ColJessip]

That review needs some editing done to it. it's mission something.

[watkins]

FOSE!

[fa22raptorf22]

I honestly just don't see the point of a hybrid...unless you pair it with a manual tranny...

Because quite frankly, i could easily pull 40mpg out of my 4banger honda. I couldn't ask for more

[theholycow]

Hybrids are for people who don't want to make the effort, aren't capable of doing it, or just want to buy their way into a fad. Forget hypermiling, you can't even get people to drive a manual transmission at all. Then you start talking about coasting or DFCO or heavy throttle+shortshifting and even manual drivers start panicking.

[LHOswald]

i hate the arguement that people get good gas mileage from hybrids or that they're better for the environment. you want good gas mileage? drive a light small displacement car with a manual transmission and learn to drive it for fuel economy. want to be better for the environment? anything without un-recyclable fuel cells is better for the environment. even alfa's car with its rusting metal and horrible gas mileage is probably better

[fa22raptorf22]

i hate the arguement that people get good gas mileage from hybrids or that they're better for the environment. you want good gas mileage? drive a light small displacement car with a manual transmission and learn to drive it for fuel economy. want to be better for the environment? anything without un-recyclable fuel cells is better for the environment. even alfa's car with its rusting metal and horrible gas mileage is probably better

Quoted for the freaking TRUTH!!!

[ekincam]

New Ford Fiesta has a 6 sp dual clutch automatic (no manual shifting) and gets EPA rated 29/40 MPG . The manual 5 sp is rated 28/37. Better than Yaris and Fit.

Engine is a 1.6L generating 120 HP in the Fiesta.

As far as the Civic hybrid goes, I like driving it over the Prius, the sedan and hatchback models. We have 1 Civic hybrid and a handful of ech model Prius in the vehicle pool at work.

[theholycow]

New Ford Fiesta has a 6 sp dual clutch automatic (no manual shifting)

Did they finally catch on that 99% of automatic drivers are scared to death of the extra shifter positions (or the +/- or whatever)? I haven't seen a new automatic without manual selection in 20 years.

Anyway, EPA ratings are fine for comparing auto to manual if you drive like the EPA fuel economy test, but if you put any thought or effort into it then a manual (or obedient dual clutch) can be driven more efficiently than a slushie (or a dual clutch without manual control). (Side note: Regardless of how you drive, EPA ratings are still great for comparing similarly equipped different models.)

[ekincam]

Well of course there's the low range selection like 2 and L for engine braking but there is no manual shifting to choose 1-6 sequentially. No flappy paddles either. But the transmission (transaxle?) doesn't have a slushy in the traditional sense because there is no torque converter required. It uses clutch like Nissan GTR or some Audis and VW so there is less loss compared to a slushy. That and they can implement fuel cut when the driver release the gas which might not work so well in an automatic with torque converter. With more gears, they can also optimize the gear ratios to match the driving condition. Aside from the fun factor, and possibly the extra weight and complexity of the dual clutch system, I don't see how it could be worse than the manual. The manual may also be oriented towards spirited driving over economy anyway. Many automatic you see nowadays have better fuel economy compared to the manual versions of teh vehicles. Look at Honda TSX and Fit for example.

Up until at least 2002 or 2003 Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, Corollas, and Civics had the standard PRND2L w/OD if equipped but without the the sequential shifting +/- though on a 4A that more or less is sequential. The sequential shift is a gimick anyway. I don't know what cars you've looked at but the sequential shift and flappy paddle automatics didn't become common until the past 5 years or so.

[theholycow]

I am familiar with, and a fan of, sequential/dual clutch transmission technology.

DFCO works fine with automatics, as long as they're willing to program it properly. My 2002 GMC, equipped with automatic, does DFCO (although it has an 8 second delay that makes it pretty worthless, but other years are better). Your concern about the torque converter's relationship with DFCO is, of course, invalid for a dual clutch system.

They do not have more gears. 6 speed dual clutch, 6 speed manual. I suppose they could be doing like VW does for the Rabbit, offering a 5 speed manual vs. a 6 speed non-manual.

I assure you that I can get better fuel economy than you from either the manual or the dual clutch, and that I can get better fuel economy from the manual than the dual clutch even if the manual has racing ratios while the dual clutch has economy ratios. Being able to control the throttle separately from the transmission and easily/quickly/gracefully go in and out of neutral allows for driving techniques that cannot be done with a dual clutch or an automatic.

What I'm saying is that you can beat the EPA rating with a manual much more effectively than you can with a non-manual.

My 1987, 1997, and 2002 GMs all had 4 speed automatics with PRND321, as did a similar selection of Fords that I drove regularly. Japanese cars I've driven have usually been higher-end so that would explain why they have had the gear selection equipment.