03 galant...or 04 lancer es?

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Post by six » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:10 pm

Hmmm... are they ANY other car maker with cars that have similar names but completely different platforms? Is the Evo the only one?
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Post by mesaboogie18 » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:14 pm

From what I read the current Lancers were actually modeled after the Evo's, so they are one in the same. The Evo's have different front ends and a more powerful engine, but they are the same beneath the skin. Back in the day if you ordered a Certain Pontiac with the "GTO" option package, it stopped being called whatever it origionally was and became just a GTO.


Check this out for the scoop on the Lancer/Evo
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Post by screenname » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:59 am

mesaboogie18 wrote:Mazdaspeed6 is still a trim of a Mazda6. They just turboed the 2.3L and gave it all wheel drive, some nice trim and body aero but underneath it's still a Mazda6. If you want a real example how about the Toyota Corolla and the Toyota Corolla Matrix. Same engines, and platform but completely different bodys.
Not true. You won't find direct injection on the NA 2.3. Actually, the turbo MZR DISI isn't even the same engine as the NA MZR 2.3. The AWD system is unique to the Mazdaspeed6 - none of the other 6s have it. Mazdaspeed engineers also stiffened up the chassis quite a bit compared to the regular Mazda6. There is also an intake integrated into the bonnet - instead of using a hood scoop like Subaru, Mazdaspeed engineers chose to route the ducts through the front grille and under the bonnet. You won't find that on a regular Mazda6. Also, good luck finding the 6-speed manual and performance clutch on a regular Mazda6. Still think it's just a "trim"? The Mazda6i and Mazda6s are trims; the Mazdaspeed6 is a completely different car.

The Ford Focus ST (European model, not the POS US model) and the Volvo C30 T5 are both on the same platform, and share lots of parts and equipment including a 2.5L turbo I5. Is the Volvo C30 a "trim" of the Focus ST, then?

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Post by mesaboogie18 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:08 am

It is still a trim level b/c the base model Impreza doesn't anything that the STi has except for the body. The Mazdaspeed6 is the same body as the regluar Mazda6 but stiffened up, new engine, and all that good stuff. It's not a totally different car, it's the same car but with the Mazdaspeed trim level. Same with all Mazdaspeed cars. The miata, the protege, and the mazda3. All of them have the mazdaspeed trim. You fail to see the point with trim levels here. The ST and Volvo ARE 2 totally different cars. The Mazda6 and Mazdaspeed6 ARE not. They are both Mazda 6's with different trim levels. The Toyota corolla and Chevy Prism share the same body, engine, and EVERYTHING except for the badge on the front of the car. Is the Prism a trim level of the Corolla? Doesn't make sense does it? The Evo is a trim level for the Lancer, the STI and WRX are trims of the Imprezza, the Roushe and Cobra are trims for the Mustang, the SVT is a trim of the focus, the GTI is the trim for a Golf, the SRT-4 is a trim of the neon...see where I'm going with this? There is a difference between cars with high performance trim levels and cars that share platforms. The Focus ST is cousins with the Volvo C30 but aren't trims of each other. I don't know if I can make this any more specific. What it comes down to is that a Mazdaspeed is a trim level for the Mazdaspeed6, not two TOTALLY different cars. Where's 6 at, doesn't he own one of those? I'm sure he can clarrify this once and for all.
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Post by six » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:57 pm

I'm here.

However, I'm sorry to say, I cannot back you up, mesa. Just because a car uses the same chassis doesn't make it a "trim level" of the base car. I don't know what you think what "trim level" means, but to take "trim level" in the literal (auto-manufacturers) sense, it will be slight to moderate changes to the base model for slightly more performance or comfort. Take the trim levels of the Mazda6, for example. There is the Mazda6i Sport, 6i Sport Value Edition, 6i Touring, 6i Grand Touring, 6s Sport Value Edition, 6s Touring, and 6s Grand Touring. The differences between all of them? i's get 4-cyl, s's get 6-cyl, and the higher levels just add Bose sound and leather seats, etc. The one's listed above are the "trim levels" of the Mazda6. Note that the Mazdaspeed6 is not listed. That's because the changes made to create the Mazdaspeed6 is far to expansive to simply list it as a "trim." For the regular Mazda6, you could basically make any Mazda6 into any trim level by simply replacing the seats, sound system, or engine-swap, etc. You can't make a Mazda6 into a Mazdaspeed6; to do that, you would have to basically strip the car and start over because the Mazdaspeed6 and the Mazda6 share little parts save for a few body panels, few interior bits, and of course, the chassis (albeit a highly modified version of it).

Believe it or not, the Mazdaspeed6 in and of itself has two trim levels, the Sport and the Grand Touring. The Sport is the "barebones" trim level of the Mazdaspeed6, and Grand Touring adds power heated leather seats, moonroof, "Touch-and-go" system (keyless operation), and the option for navigation.

The same goes for the Evo. The ONLY things the Evo share with the Lancer is the chassis (again, highly modified version), a few body panels, and a few interior bits. The Lancer has its own trim levels: ES, SE, OZ Rally, and Ralliart. Differences between them? You got it: different seats, comfort features, exterior styling cues, etc (Ralliart gets a tuned engine). The Evolution, again, has it's own trim levels as well: RS, IX, and MR. Differences between the first two are minor, differences of the MR are great (including an entirely different transmission).

My point? I go by this rule: if the car in question has its own trim levels, it cannot be a trim level of another car. In this case, I believe (after all I've said above), that the STi is indeed a trim level of the Impreza (it's even listed as such).
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Post by mesaboogie18 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:10 am

The way I saw it was that if a 300hp STi is a "trim level" for a 165hp Imprezza then the same applies to Evo's and Mazdaspeeds. The Imprezza doesn't have hardly anything that the STi does, save for the body. Completely different engines, body styling, internal parts, etc....You can't make an Imprezza into an STi any easier than you can make a Mazda6i into a Mazdaspeed6 so I don't see the difference. So is a Mazdaspeed Miata not a Miata then? Is it not a trim level b/c it's been given go fast parts. What about a Mazdaspeed3? Is it a completely different car from a Mazda3s? If the Mazdaspeed6 were a totally different car from the Mazda6 then it would have it's own name...and adding "speed" after Mazda and before 6 doesn't constitute for a new name either. How about a Cobra? It's got stuff a Mustang doesn't have but it's still a trim level right? The GTO started out as a Pontiac LeMans but with the "GTO" package/trim it was a called a LeMans GTO. Eventually they gave it it's own body and it became a seperate car from the Lemans. The speed6 is the "GTO" package of the Mazda6, so it's in essence the same car. Until they give it a whole new body and name, you can't say that a Mazdaspeed6 is a different car from a Mazda6. That's my $.02 on that deal.

Here's what consumerguide has to say about Mazda6 trim levels:

Mazda6 Model Lineup

Notice that under Trim Levels the Mazdaspeed6 is labled as a trim.
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Post by six » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:50 am

Okay, I acknowledge your points. In your words, you believe that unless the car has a completely different chassis and a completely different name, it's a trim level. Fine.

So that means, in your eyes, an STi is "just another Impreza," an Evo is "just another Lancer," an SVT Cobra or Shelby GT500 is "just another Mustang," an E63 AMG is "just another E-class," an M5 is "just another 5-series," and the Mazdaspeed6 is "just another Mazda6." I'm fine with that. However, I'm not going to argue with you on technicalities. I have a lot more fun driving my Mazda6.
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Post by mesaboogie18 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:00 am

That's just what I think about the whole "trim level" thing. Its more of a matter of opinion than a fact. I just didn't understand why people would say that an STi is a trim for an Imprezza but a Mazdaspeed6 or Evolution isn't a trim for a Mazda6 and Lancer. Getting off this crazy topic I will say that before I went active duty I thought about the car that I really wanted to buy with my air force money(or lack thereof) and I decided that anything less than a Mazda6s hatchback wouldn't do. Well it seems that a Mazda6 is a bit out of my league money wise. It would cost almost $28,000 or so to have all the options I want for it and I can't afford that. However, once my credit gets built up later on down the road, I might trade my baby in for one. I LOVE the 6. It's handsome, sporty, and has a great interior. Plus I love the way the keyfob and key are the same and it's like a switchblade...something I thought only Volkswagen did.
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Post by six » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:26 am

My previous car was a Mazda6s hatchback, actually, the exact car you wanted since mine was $27,700 MSRP also. I agree, it was indeed a very nice car. GREAT looks, great ride, great handling, great everything. TONS of space. I helped my sister move to college with it, we actually fit MOST of her stuff in there, leaving only the big-ticket items (shelves and refrigerator) left over for the van. It was great. The switchblade key is very cool too, saw the key on a CX-7 (my Mazda6 was a year before they had switchblade keys).
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Post by mesaboogie18 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:27 am

This is probably a "duh" question, but did you get the 5 speed manual or the 6 speed semi-automatic? Cause if I do get one I might...*turns to make sure no one is around*...get the slushie....Just puttin it out there, you can take it or leave it, but it's out there now.
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Post by Sypher » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:18 am

mesaboogie18 wrote:This is probably a "duh" question, but did you get the 5 speed manual or the 6 speed semi-automatic? Cause if I do get one I might...*turns to make sure no one is around*...get the slushie....Just puttin it out there, you can take it or leave it, but it's out there now.
whyyyyyyyyy!?? lol

and six, was that the 05 or 06 the last year they had conventional keys for the sixes?

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Post by six » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:38 pm

mesaboogie18 wrote:This is probably a "duh" question, but did you get the 5 speed manual or the 6 speed semi-automatic? Cause if I do get one I might...*turns to make sure no one is around*...get the slushie....Just puttin it out there, you can take it or leave it, but it's out there now.
Turns out to be no so "duh." I got the 6-speed auto with the Mazda6. However, since you have experience with manuals, I highly recommend you get the 5-speed. Trust me, I've regretted getting the auto (it's one of the reasons I "jumped up" to a Mazdaspeed6). I thought with the extra gear and the "slap-shift" (tiptronic) it would be kinda fun and save a bit of gas. Turns out the tiptronic is slower than I imagined, and the manual used less gas (tested by Mazda6Club/Mazda6Tech members).

And Sypher, I don't know whether 05 or 06 was the last year for regular keys. If any of the lurkers here have an 06 Mazda6, please chime in :wink:
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Post by dklkse » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:29 pm

mesaboogie18 wrote:This is probably a "duh" question, but did you get the 5 speed manual or the 6 speed semi-automatic? Cause if I do get one I might...*turns to make sure no one is around*...get the slushie....Just puttin it out there, you can take it or leave it, but it's out there now.
SELL OUT!! SELL OUT!!

Haha j/k. :wink:



Seriously though, I highly recommend a manual gearbox for any Mazda vehicle. Mazda produces sub-par auto trannies (not the worst, but pretty far from the best/smoothest). However, they produce excellent manual gearboxes. You'd be denying yourself true driving enjoyment, IMO.
I would consider the 6 for my next car myself, but the fact that the V6 used is a Duratec turns me off.

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Post by Sypher » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:07 pm

dklkse wrote: IMO.
I would consider the 6 for my next car myself, but the fact that the V6 used is a Duratec turns me off.
thats why you get the speed6 :lol:

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Post by six » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:42 pm

What's wrong with the Duratec? It's a good engine, and the one used in the Mazda6 is Mazda-modified. It's not one pulled out of a Taurus or something.
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