Hey everyone

areben · Post by **areben** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:46 pm

Hows everyone doing? Hope all is well.
I'm very excited to be member here and a [very] new manual driver. I've never felt more accomplished behind the wheel than I did today. I picked up my new car today and, after a short trip home in the passengers seat, got to learning how to drive all over again! My mother is teaching me and I think she's doing a great job (although I really have no comparison). Its amazing how starting the car from a dead stop--probably the easiest thing in an automatic--is quite possibly the hardest thing to feel out in a manual.

Anyway, I enjoy reading everyone's posts here and have pulled a wealth of info from this board! Thanks for making my first day a little easier!

Cheers

Post by **jomotopia** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:51 pm

welcome to the site.

six · Post by **six** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:57 pm

Welcome, and congrats on your new car. You get the coupe or the sedan Si?

areben · Post by **areben** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:09 am

Coupe. I figure when I need the four doors maybe its time to buy something a little more substantial than a Civic. For some reason I've always just wanted an Si, even before they got this [nice] 8th gen face lift. I felt like if I got the sedan I'd be defeating "the purpose" (dont ask, lol)...

Nychold · Post by **Nychold** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:48 am

I wouldn't call the new generation face lift nice, but hey, to each their own.

And I wouldn't say it's one of the hardest things about driving a manual, but the hardest thing. And I think it has do with reoccurances. When you drive a manual, you may have 10 launches, but you'll have probably 70 upshifts and 25 downshifts. You'll get much more practice with shifting gears than you'll ever get with launches.

Anyway, sounds like you're having fun. Keep it up, and welcome aboard, me matey.

PureLife · Post by **PureLife** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:50 am

Welcome to the site; hope you stick around (pun intended].

Just keep practicing and you'll pick it up before long. Civic SI is a nice car for sure!

VTECaddict · Post by **VTECaddict** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:03 am

areben wrote:Coupe. I figure when I need the four doors maybe its time to buy something a little more substantial than a Civic. For some reason I've always just wanted an Si, even before they got this [nice] 8th gen face lift. I felt like if I got the sedan I'd be defeating "the purpose" (dont ask, lol)...

the new Civic Type R in Japan is going to be the sedan. hows that for your "purpose"?

black94boost · Post by **black94boost** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:08 am

Aww, you should have waited for the Mugen Si

But congrats on the car and welcome to the site. I want an SI too

areben · Post by **areben** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:47 am

VTECaddict wrote:the new Civic Type R in Japan is going to be the sedan. hows that for your "purpose"?

Honestly I cant say I know much about the Type Rs. I'm really not sure what direction Honda is taking with their new 'style' but it seems like a shift toward family. When I hear "Honda" I think "young guys car," not "family car/suv."

Anyway, I can honestly say that I'm really confused about technique. My mom is a proponent of using the engine to slow down through down shifting as long as its safe but every place on the web says: "its less expensive for breaks than a transmission." I'm reading the forum here and still cant decide what to do. Anyway, I'm still struggling down shifting (I think its something about rev-matching' or dumping the clutch) so Ive been slowing down in the current gear and then disengaging the clutch and using the breaks...

Thanks to everyone who posted. I love my MT!!!

six · Post by **six** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:39 am

areben wrote:When I hear "Honda" I think "young guys car," not "family car/suv."

For me, it's the total opposite. Same for Toyota.

black94boost · Post by **black94boost** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:30 am

areben wrote:Anyway, I can honestly say that I'm really confused about technique. My mom is a proponent of using the engine to slow down through down shifting as long as its safe but every place on the web says: "its less expensive for breaks than a transmission." I'm reading the forum here and still cant decide what to do. Anyway, I'm still struggling down shifting (I think its something about rev-matching' or dumping the clutch) so Ive been slowing down in the current gear and then disengaging the clutch and using the breaks...

I think that if it is done correctly, the wear on the clutch is insignificant. Besides, its something fun to learn for when you are racing around corners or want to make corners faster. I need for the weather to get better so I can get out of my boots and HT it on nonslippery roads

potownrob · Post by **potownrob** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:37 am

I think the Si sedan was a cool idea but I personally would rather have the coupe for at least a couple of reasons:
1. The coupe just looks sportier (my subjective opinion of course). I like the looks of the sedan but don't consider it sporty, unlike the coupe.
2. The coupes are designed with front seat and driver in particular in mind - more room up front (I fit 7 people in my 94 Civic EX coupe twice though so the backseat wasn't neglected too much

)

As for the downshifting question, the common person doesn't know how to drive stick right and thinks the only way to downshift gears is to clutch in, move the shifter to the lower gear and ease out the clutch. Then another commoner who knows what's happening under the hood but still thinks that's the only way to downshift will tell the first guy that downshifting is bad for the clutch and that brakes are cheaper and more effective (which is true). Problem here is that a properly executed downshift doesn't incur much if any wear to the clutch or any of the drivetrain (other than maybe taking a few seconds from the engine's life). The downshift technique I learned from my dad is called the double clutch rev-matched downshift. It's called double clutch downshift (sometimes acronymized on here as DC DS) because you push the clutch in and let it out twice during the downshift. It's rev-matched in that you add gas (tap the gas pedal) while the clutch is out (engaged - the engine and tranny are connected) with the shifter in neutral. You do this to match up the engine speed for the lower gear you're downshifting into, since the lower gear is bigger and requires more gas (more engine rpms) to spin the same speed as the higher gear. You perform this downshift when you want or need the extra torque that the larger lower gear provides. Since I learned this method first, I had a hard time switching to a simpler rev-matched downshift sometimes referred to as the single clutch rev-matched downshift (SC DS for short). For this downshift you only push the clutch in once and don't let it out until the rev-match has been executed. Say you're downshifting from 4th to 3rd, here's how it goes:
1. Let off the gas while you're in 4th gear
2. Clutch in and move shifter to 3rd and keep the clutch in
3. Tap the gas pedal -the amount you add will depend on a number of factors including but not limited to the car's speed, the engine speed in the higher gear, the gear ratio spread (difference between 4th and 3rd gear ratios) and the phase of the moon -you usually will have to give enough gas so that you have added +/- 1000 rpms over what the engine speed was in the higher gear. I don't even think about how much gas I add; i just know how much from practice. There's a formula to figure out the exact amount of gas to add but it's probably easier to just feel it out.
4. Quickly let the clutch out to the engagement point and ease through the engagement point until you get good with the rev-matching. If the car pulls back, you need to add more gas or let the clutch out quicker; if your car flings forward like a slingshot, you added too much gas

5. Stay off the gas to slow down; Get back on the gas to go

Hope this helps

John, where's your SC DS instructions

scionkid · Post by **scionkid** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:12 am

Like potownrob said, it downshifting to slow doesn't hurt the transmission and clutch in anyway if done properly. However, making the engine turn more revolutions than it has to by staying in current gear causes more engine wear. I don't know exactly how much engine wear there will be, but I don't feel right about gambling with a thousand dollar equipment when brake pads are about $50 a set.

Downshifting to slow down originated from the days where cars had 4 wheel drum brakes. With modern disc brakes in front, downshifting is only necessary when going down hills.

jory543 · Post by **jory543** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:22 am

Don't worry about damaging your car or wearing the clutch by downshifting. It is a normal part of driving standard and anybody who drives stick should know how to do it. Plus it adds a lot of fun when you get practice at it.

areben · Post by **areben** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:40 am

potownrob wrote:Words...

Thank You so much. Im getting a lot better at this point. I just can not wait until I do not have to 'think' much about shifting...

jory543 wrote:It is a normal part of driving standard and anybody who drives stick should know how to do it. Plus it adds a lot of fun when you get practice at it.

A lot of fun being jerked around in the seat while practicing

. lol. I just love practicing all together. And showing off to my girlfriend the improvements everyday is just so much fun (she cant drive std). The first day I was dumping the clutch so much it was a rough bumpy ride. Now up shifting is smooth and decent and down shifts are "getting there."

Later Guys/Gals