Too much gas at start-up

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Rope-Pusher
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by Rope-Pusher » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:33 pm

fa22raptorf22 wrote:
Rope-Pusher wrote: the Man's Prayer: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess."

Don't feel bad, we're all in this with ya.
Mis-quote sir!
The man's prayer was a quote. The other was just parrot-phrased.
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FDSpirit
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by FDSpirit » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:26 pm

g35toc2s wrote: I went to my mechanic and he cleaned the throttle body and adjusted the throttle somewhat. This felt better but still there was a big dead zone at the top of the pedal. So I went home and tweaked the throttle cable a little more, like the link I posted above. It was really easy (but I hope I didn't mess up anything ...)

Now the throttle still has a very small dead zone at the top, but after that it's quite linear and responsive. With bare foot, I can consistently rev up to 1200 or so. So tonight I will try to go to a parking lot and get familiar with the new throttle.

Thanks to everyone for your help. Now I feel much better and much more connected to my car!
Good to hear :) . You'll know if you took out too much cable slack. If the car is idling high, you know you overtightened it.
2000 Honda Civic Si- Slightly faster than your grandmomma's grocery getter......slightly.

g35toc2s
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by g35toc2s » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:37 pm

FDSpirit wrote: Good to hear :) . You'll know if you took out too much cable slack. If the car is idling high, you know you overtightened it.
It still idles at about 600~700, so I think I can tighten it even more to get rid of the last bit of dead zone.

BTW, my Civic can go really low without stalling. The RPM can go so low like it's touching the end of the tachometer -- like 200~300 RPM. Is this a curse or blessing?

A few times the car sounded like it stalled in traffic, and I clutch in to try to restart the car, at which time the engine magically goes back to life by itself ...

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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by theholycow » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:39 pm

Being able to go down to low RPM is normal. The blessing is that you're catching it before it's too late.
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FDSpirit
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by FDSpirit » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:41 pm

Eh. You should be fine. I wouldn't mess with it anymore :lol: . But that's my personal preference. I like that there is a small bit of dead space with my pedal travel. It's barely noticeable though.
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by LHOswald » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:45 am

Rope-Pusher wrote:
g35toc2s wrote:
fa22raptorf22 wrote:Then when I get my Porsche (if wife allows), then learn the Porsche way.
the Man's Prayer: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess."

Don't feel bad, we're all in this with ya.
keep your stick on the ice! GODDAMN I LOVE REDGREEN
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1974Alfa5spd
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by 1974Alfa5spd » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:46 am

g35toc2s wrote:Thanks guys! I will take the car to my mechanic to see if it can be fixed (preferably at a cost lower than the price of the car :-)

Yes, I hope the Porsche drives differently. Now my main goal is to get over the mental hump. I take a 1 hour practice drive every night. I've done that for almost 3 weeks now, and every time it still feels like getting a root canal at every stop.

I am pretty bad at learning things that "just needs to be natural at it", like sports, the guitar or foreign languages. So I am assuming that I need to work 3x harder than others ...
1. Welcome!
2. Being a natural at driving a manual is a completely different thing than sports or languages, a little different from the guitar. Eventually your muscles will develop a memory and your mind a pattern so that you don't even need to think consciously to execute a shift.
3. That's the great thing about beaters. If you kill it, sell it and buy another one!
4. The G35s stock exhaust sounds like absolute sex. Image
theholycow wrote:Go to an abandoned parking lot and practice no-gas launches. It will be very, very tedious if you can do it at all, but it will train your left foot very quickly. Without touching the gas, very slowly let off the clutch pedal, and pause letting it up when the car starts moving. The goal is to learn how fast you can do it.
YES. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The first time I drove a manual around a parking lot, my dad only let me do no-gas launches. I had the clutch mastered by the time we went home. :mrgreen:

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FDSpirit
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by FDSpirit » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:07 pm

I didn't even know no gas launches existed until I came here :lol: . My friend just told me to release the clutch and add gas. It worked, but the no gas method made me a much much much better driver :D .
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by g35toc2s » Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:08 am

Some more progress report. I hope it doesn't bore everyone.

My throttle is still sticky, but I practice just the throttle for more than 30 minutes today and seem to be getting better at it.

The throttle response is like this

[dead zone][resistance zone][linear response -------->

The dead zone is where the throttle will travel freely without giving any gas

The resistance zone is where the throttle feels heavy. Still if I get to here, it doesn't give any gas.

Once I get past the resistance zone, I can control the throttle speed quite linearly. I could slowly rev up from idle (1000rpm) to 1500rpm, and then slowly back down to idle.

The problem is the resistance zone seems to vary every time. So if I apply the same force, sometimes nothing happens, and sometimes it revs up to 2000rpm. I checked the throttle linkage inside of the car and there are few places that seem loose. Maybe that's the reason for it.

Anyway, for launching, the throttle technique I am developing now is, while releasing the clutch

1. pivot from brake pedal to gas pedal with a little tap. This will allow me go past the dead zone.

2. press firmly and gradually. Usually I can get it to rev to 1500rpm. If I don't get any response, I just keep pressing harder. It would rev to 2000rpm, and then I ease off the throttle a little to avoid jumping forward.

I plan on practising the throttle by itself a lot more. Hopefully that will allow me to launch with lower RPM.

This beater is not the best car to learn the stick -- I probably should have bought a new Nissan Versa for about 10 grand -- but that would be less fun :-)

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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by g35toc2s » Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:18 am

BTW, as many of you suggested, I need to also practice more no-gas launch to get better at the clutch. I found a nice empty bay side parking lot, so I intend to go there every night to enjoy the breeze :-) I will try to go through all the gears, and see how high my 12 year old civic could go ...

I haven't practised too much no gas launching yet, because my main problem has been the sticky throttle.

My clutch is quite forgiving. Many times I just release it wishy-washy, and for some reason it would catch and get the car going. If I can match the throttle well (and that's a big IF), the launch is pretty quick and smooth. Many times the car dies because it's waiting for the gas to come but the throttle won't give any.

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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by theholycow » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:31 am

Have you or your mechanic tried lubricating the throttle cable, pivots, linkages, and other moving parts?

If you can no-gas through all the gears that will definitely be great training for your left foot, but I don't know if your Civic can. It may not be able to idle in higher gears.
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FDSpirit
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by FDSpirit » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:34 am

Sounds like the cable needs some grease or something. It shouldn't be sticking like that if you guys reduced the slack and cleaned out the TB. How well did he clean the TB out? My old Corolla had so much caked on gunk that I actually stomped the pedal and it wouldn't move :shock: :lol: . I used a toothbrush and a ton of rags. And no gassing through gears in my car isn't so great :lol: . You need a little bit of gas. Honda clutches are pretty generous when it comes to learning. Once you get the basics down though, driving almost any other manual should be easy.
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by 1974Alfa5spd » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:02 am

g35toc2s wrote:[dead zone][resistance zone][linear response -------->
Sounds like it could use either a really thorough throttle body cleaning, or maybe a throttle cable replacement at worst. Does the resistance zone feel really difficult to pass through, or is it just a place where you feel light tension, but the throttle doesn't open?
</doesn'tunderstandhondathrottles>

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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by FDSpirit » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:33 am

I don't see how much would change with a throttle cable setup. But from what I've heard, just greasing it is just going to band aid the actual issue. Hopefully it just needs a really good cleaning. He had already adjusted it. But if it's resistance, it might be what I described earlier with my Corolla, which had it pretty bad. If you go and clean it again, make sure you open the valve by either stepping on the pedal or pulling the cable and clean the outer edges of it too. Doesn't hurt to be thorough. Eliminate the most obvious things first.
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Re: Too much gas at start-up

Post by ElectroGhandi » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:43 am

+1 on driving barefoot. I started doing that last spring and now I could not go back. I even drive automatics barefoot now.

Also, remember that it's normal to launch differently based on the situation. In parking lots, traffic, and other low speed situations, the engine barely revs at all when I launch but at a red light on a 50 mph road, the engine may rev to 1600 rpm so that I can get going with decent acceleration.
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