Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Autocross, Road Racing, Rallycross, Rally...
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gizmo
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:02 am

The term "racecar" is vague. But I like to think of it as a car that's used soley on the track. Probably requires on CAM2, suspension is hightech and wouldn't survive most normal driving conditions, probably won't pass inspection (lexan windows, no wipers, interesting emissions, etc.). I could go on and on with this list, but in the end its a car that doesn't belong on a street because it's just that darn great.

AFCO front suspension components are like 50$, and assuming a fabricator will build you something worthwhile then they will help an A-Frame corner like something out of this world, but they likely won't survive the rigors of daily driving. Plus their not DOT certified...

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by permabanned » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:10 am

sarcasm gets lost easy on the webz dont it

its a street car. but then again a i know a dude with a full gutted caged firebird with not a single non essential wire in the car running a carbed LS1, not sure on the trans, probably a turbo 400, a ladder bar 9" rear end and skinnies and DRs and a 5" cowl hood to clear the carb and the spacer. its a street car. whenever its done he will drive it on the street, hence a street car.


its a vague line between a street car and a race car. with the mods i have my probe isnt emissions compliant so technically its not street legal. and who cares. majority of the car crowd doesnt have a cat, and having emissions where you live does noting to stop it. its all about who you know.

but then again theres no emissions or inspections of any sort in ohio, i could drive a real race car like a viper competition coupe, which is a full race car, i could drive on the street and as long as i shut the exhaust up in front of a cop ill drive it forever
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by Bawked » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:50 am

My mates 1977 ford escort is a race car! front engine rear wheel drive!!! carbed 1.6L 4 banger!!! It can go 120kph (75mph) downhill with the wind!!! absolute power!!! Think its got leaf springs the penultimate racing suspension1!!
<3 fwd

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:55 am

So I'm not sure what to do about this tire thing. I'm not totally convinced that having one set of tires on the front and another on the rear will upset the handling at all. Secondly, I wish there was a way for me to know whether the tires I'm getting are actually of better quality than the expensive POSs I have now.

If I go to Mavis, because they're the only ones who carry a decent selection of inexpensive tires, I can choose between these two:

Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season
All Season Ultra High Performance

Front and Rear: 215/45ZR17 XL
Speed Rating: Z
Service Desc: 91Y
Load Range: XL Ply Rating: 4
Sidewall: Blackwall




Pirelli PZERO NERO M+S
All Season Ultra High Performance

Front & Rear: P215/45ZR17W
Speed Rating: W
Service Desc: 87W
Load Range: SL Ply Rating: 4
Sidewall: Blackwall



The goodyear's are less expensive, and so I'd like to opt for them. Mavis seems to charge all kinds of weird prices to fit these things.

Also, costco sells tires but doesn't charge for mounting and balancing so hopefully I can find an all season tire for the same price as those (the gForce wasn't the A/S and so not an option)

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by Prodigal Son » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:09 am

Why are you putting an ultra high performance tire on an economy sedan? You have to think of your car as a system in which all the components work together. Putting high performance parts on an economy car is more likely to upset the balance of the system than to improve performance. You want the kind of tires that your car was designed to use, the tires that are best for your car, not the tires that are best on the spec sheet.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:11 pm

+1 to that! My car came with yokohama S32As. S32As cost $275+$30 to install per tire. So I'm not actually trying to fit my car with a better ultra high performance tire, but rather replace the "ultra high performance tires" I have now with ones that cost half as much. Cause frankly, my car has to work to do 60 in 5th (my final gear). So, performance and my car don't belong in the same sentence.

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:16 pm

Also, I'd like to apologize for commandeering this thread and making a tire discussion of it. I'm going to make a new thread in this section for the tire element of this thread. Sorry folks.

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:27 pm

If I can get this tire thing ironed out by Sunday. I'll post pictures of my car at the local AUTOCROSS event.

Woooooo,.

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by AHTOXA » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:06 pm

Prodigal Son wrote:Why are you putting an ultra high performance tire on an economy sedan? You have to think of your car as a system in which all the components work together. Putting high performance parts on an economy car is more likely to upset the balance of the system than to improve performance. You want the kind of tires that your car was designed to use, the tires that are best for your car, not the tires that are best on the spec sheet.
Not in the case of tires or cars in general. As far as car's capabilities and balance, good performance tires do not have any side effects. There is always overkill (like slicks) but it's arguable. Some would say the V8 in a Miata is not needed as well, as the car was not designed for so much power. Does it upset the original balance? Perhaps. Does it give the car an edge? Absolutely.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by permabanned » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:18 pm

sticky tires are FTW. suspension on a street car (not a truck or SUV, those will roll over) will always give out before the tires and you will end up losing traction before you roll over. might as well extend the window of how far into the door panel the G forces can push you before you break loose
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by Raki » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:36 am

I've done motorsport, but I've never raced..

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by GarySheehan » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:02 pm

gizmo wrote:I'm not totally convinced that having one set of tires on the front and another on the rear will upset the handling at all.
Well that depends. Do you mean driving around town handling or handling at the limit of adhesion?

Driving around town you probably won't notice anything at all.

Driving at the limit of adhesion is a completely different thing altogether. Different rubber compounds, sidewall construction, tread style, tread depth and tire weight will all have a significant impact on the characteristic of the tire as it breaks away. The Mu-slip curves would be very different between them.

So, with tires that generate different slip angles at similar loads, you would definitely notice handling changes. To the point that an understeering car could become balanced or even oversteer. Or an understeering car getting even worse understeer.

The tire is the ONLY thing connecting your car to the road. Don't underestimate its importance in how your car handles.

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by permabanned » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:48 am

you do realize that worn down street tires grip a lot better than new street tires. less tread walking. new tall tread blocks can shift around because they are so tall. thats why tires always grip the best before they are worn down to mexican slicks.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by Bawked » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:02 am

What is the ideal tread depth for max grip? my fronts are 6mm and rears 4mm and they seem to be gripping aswell as ever right now :)
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by permabanned » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:07 am

mexican slicks are the best until you hit that oily spot in the road or it starts raining

id imagine right around the wear bars which are 1/16ths i think would be the crispiest grip while still maintaining rain driveability
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