Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Autocross, Road Racing, Rallycross, Rally...
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by eaglecatcher »

BlueSkies wrote:I have also done both. It is great fun, and you also learn how to control you car. Unfortunatly the car I used was a Clio 172. Well, it is really fun, but a RWD is even more fun. This summer I probably will be driving a Porsche 968 at some track days and AutoX meetings.
haha rwd is way more fun. It makes it so much easier to just rotate the rear end of the car around. Controlled oversteer FTW :)
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by nothfx »

I've been reallly thinking about doing some AutoX lately... there's a club right in Moncton, and also a larger club (Maritime-wide) for bigger events - anyone in the Maritimes that are looking to get started, this is the site:

http://armsinc.ca/

The one thing that puts me off a bit about it, is my car is my DD... I'm concerned I might break something important driving it at its limits :lol:
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by eaglecatcher »

nothfx wrote:I've been reallly thinking about doing some AutoX lately... there's a club right in Moncton, and also a larger club (Maritime-wide) for bigger events - anyone in the Maritimes that are looking to get started, this is the site:

http://armsinc.ca/

The one thing that puts me off a bit about it, is my car is my DD... I'm concerned I might break something important driving it at its limits :lol:
Unless you just haven't maintained it well, and it's really old, the only harm you'll do to your car is use lots of gas, wear your brake pads and tires down fast, and need to change your fluids a little more often (due to the stress from racing).

If you're really worrited about breaking something, then take it a little easy. Don't drive it 100%, you'll still have fun.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo »

nothfx wrote:The one thing that puts me off a bit about it, is my car is my DD... I'm concerned I might break something important driving it at its limits :lol:
I would think that you can still enjoy the thrills of autocross without having to push your car beyond it's limits. I would think that you'll lose far more time because of penalities incurred as opposed to slightly slower and earlier shifts. So, just think of it like a day of spirited driving, except on a closed course no one stands to suffer because of your driving!

My question for you, and everyone else, would be: while a driver is negotiating a chicane in a stock dinky daily driver, can the driver safely leave the engine spinning at 4K (with a 6K redline) or should the driver sacrifice response and pep for a higher gear? Should a driver be capable of DCHTing into first gear? Is DCHTing into first gear commonplace for the autocross aficianados? ...I would think these are the only two scenarios you'd have to worry about unusually excessive wear?
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by blauenlanze »

Spinning at 4K should be no problem. Think about it, it's barely any load and you're just keeping the revs up for when you do need to accelerate again. Wouldn't know about how many people stick it in 2nd, or shift back and forth between 1st and 2nd. I'd imagine that people with peaky engines and finicky gearing would be annoyed at courses that straddle their 1st and 2nd gear shift points, then again you won't be accelerating all that much as the straights are very limited in any auto-cross course.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by permabanned »

if your worried about breaking stuff, dont track your car. simple as that. Gary said words of wisdom a while back: if you cant afford to turn your car into a ball of metal and leave it at the track, stay off the track. theres risks with any kind of high performance driving. with autox about the biggest risk is scuffs on your paint from owning cones. with road racing or something like turning laps at a track day speeds are up, engine rpms are way up for extended periods of time, theres potential for shit to break and for the driver mod to screw up, and you might only go off the track into a patch of grass or it may be a concrete wall

as of right now im going autocrossing for the 1st time with a group of TT guys at the final nworscca autocross of the season, theres gonna be a bunch of noobs who never autoxed before, its gonna be a noobocross more than anything.

figuring out your class is a big pain in the ass tho.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

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I want to autocross. I think I might go this weekend. Local event. I don't have money to shell out for tires so I'll try to keep my driving a little on the conservative side.

My main concern will be DCHTing under heavy braking because I haven't had the opportunity to brake extremely hard and do so. I know, under extremely hard braking I can DCHT fine if I block shift but I want to be able to sequential shift because I'd like to be able to race a car effectively if the car requires sequential DCHTs to keep the boost up . Any hints? And so I wonder if I can DCHT sequentially as well as I can when I'm braking moderately. Trouble is, I have no idea what it'll be like DCHTing into first gear; I'm sort of afraid but without it I can't tear out of a hairpin.

Whenever I do try to DCHT when I am forced to brake hard, I usually end up slowing to my desired speed far too early and I end up feeling sad. But I get worried that I won't make the shift in time. So I need practice, no doubt about that, but I'm not sure what's the best way to practice effectively. Sometimes I come too a halt too early simply because my car sucks -- it's so damn slow the only gear that actually has some guts requires that I travel through the turn more slowly than I could if I didn't want the lower gear. Not sure if that's a normal trade off?

Strangely enough, other times, my car seems like it doesn't want to slow down. I always thought that was because I have it in 5 when 2 or 3 might do and thus I figured the engine is being driven by the wheels, not the other way around, and that's why it brakes so slow. But I could be that my car is just not intended for anything other than comfort.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by Prodigal Son »

gizmo wrote:My main concern will be DCHTing under heavy braking because I haven't had the opportunity to brake extremely hard and do so.
According to the course I took and all I have read on the subject, you almost never get out of second gear in autocross. You don't go fast enough to require a shift to 3rd and there is very little to be gained by shifting to first to exist a sharp corner, since whatever you might gain in acceleration, you would lose again in the shift to second. In any case, as a newbie, you will have far too many other things to worry about and learn before getting to such refinements as downshifting, let alone DCHT.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo »

Thanks Prodigal, your input is always appreciated.

I've done autocross in an automatic before. If I only need to keep one gear then I'm probably seeking a different form of racing that would be better suited for the skills I don't have when racing an automatic. (Did I just say racing an automatic? LOL!). In essence, the only part of racing with which I feel uncomfortable is downshifting under hard braking.

I don't want to drive like a madman on a public roadway, even when the roads seem desolate, and thus I don't have any opportunities to practice those techniques under racing conditions until I actually get on a track where driving like a *calculated* madman is encouraged.

My trouble seems to be braking hard and downshifting because I seem to slow to desired speed too early -- two car lengths too early -- but when I drive it in a little deeper I'm reluctant to downshift because I'm afraid I'll overrev or I enter the turn before I finish the downshift. I think this is a due partly to my dinky tC and its effiminate lack of power. If I want a gear with any kind of power, since 3.5K is powerless, then I probably needing to slow down more because of the gear and want, not because the turn requires it. But when I see turns my brain only recognizes the cars potential to hold a line at some threshold speed, and when I realize I can't have the gear I want for that speed, I overbrake to catch it. Atleast, that's what I think I'm doing because if I didn't have to downshift I could drive it in much deeper, just wouldn't have power to accelerate through the turn (keeping the line I'd lose by trailing off the throttle or by failing to steadily increase throttle input).

I've been to some stock car racing schools. Three to be exact: Pocono Superspeedway -2.5 mile-in a stock car, Louden Superspeedway-1.06 mile-in a stockcar, and Thomspon Speedway-5/8 mile short track-in a tour modified. Trouble is we only needed to keep the car in one gear regardless of track size or car type. As a side note: keeping the modified in one gear on that small track was my first formal introduction to left foot braking with throlled input -- a peculiar technique.

So aside from some really geographically distant (and coincedently expensive) schools that allow you to shift on the track, I thought autocross might be a perfect opportunity to practice those manaul transmission related road racing techniques I haven't had the opportunity to do yet. I'll still go, just for the added experience, but I don't think autocross is truly what I'm needing.

I need to find a way to get myself onto a track where I can practice DCHTing. I think I would practice the technique much like I did other techniques in those aforementioned racing schools: start conservative and build up on intensity with each passing lap, driving harder and deeper into turns as time progresses, being honest with oneself when determining if the last intensity level was executed correctly. But I'd prefer not to be on the track while competing with other drivers I don't want them to influence my decisions nor do I want to initially concern myself with the presence of other drivers -- unless we all have equally matched cars in which case I don't have to worry about travelling around the track at the half the speed that everyone else is because my car is cheap.

I found this website, http://www.hookedondriving.com, but there's nothing available in my area until next year. Any suggestions, I was hoping to pay 50-100 bucks and take my own car onto the track where I can safely practice manual tranmissions racing techniques.

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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by Prodigal Son »

Sounds like what you are looking for is lapping days at a road course. I know that Calabogie Motorsports Park near Ottawa offers such days, so I'm sure that they must be available at a track near you. Lapping, I am told, is much more expensive than autocross, and much harder on the car, but it sounds like you are willing and able to spend the money. Good luck finding the right venue.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo »

DOH! Money! DOH!

*sigh*
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by Nychold »

Have you considered looking into joining an organization, like the SCCA *paging Dr. Sheehan*. From my (limited) understanding, they have events all the time, in a wide variety of competitive classes. In fact, I just went to their site, and under events, they have like 10 listings across the country for the next 3 days. :D
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by gizmo »

I think Gary tries to avoid my posts. :) I can't say I blame the doctor. :D

I certainly don't want to hurt my car. I figured pushing the car on a track, without going overboard, wouldn't diminish the life of the car. But if Prodigal says it wears then it does!

Flatspotting a tire: $fail$. Breaking something mechanical: $epic fail$. Riding my bike onto campus because I damage my daily driver running laps: $sadly priceless$.

I can't afford damage to my daily driver. I need this thing to last until 250K. I suppose I'll just save up for a racing school. With some luck maybe I'll win the lottery and get get a working racecar, nothing extravagent, that I can afford to have it crap out on me and break without worrying about getting to work or school the next day.

DOH.
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by permabanned »

what do you drive?

track days are expensive, usually 100-150 dollars for a car and driver. but for that much money you obviously get a lot of on track time instead of 4-5 70ish second runs in autocross.

being realistic, you cant really drive yourself there and drive your car around and leave at the end of the day. youll need someone else to come with you to carry a gas can, tools, extra fluids, etc. you might not break anything, or you might. you might blow a tire out, who knows.

like i said before if you cant afford to ball your car up and leave it at the track, dont track it. autocross, its cheap and cones dont kill
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Re: Does anyone here autocross or race on a circuit?

Post by jomotopia »

also don't forget that most insurance companies will not cover damages that happen on a race track, whether you are in an actual timed race or not. my policy specifically says that i am not covered on a "racing surface" or something like that. regardless of what i'm doing, just if i'm there. this also means that your insurance company probably won't cover damage to someone else's car if you run into them, and vice versa if someone runs into you.
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