Is The Ares Panther’s “Fake Manual” DCT Almost The Perfect Transmission?

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Is The Ares Panther’s “Fake Manual” DCT Almost The Perfect Transmission?

Post by Standardshifter »

"But wouldn’t it be great if you had one transmission that could give you the best of both worlds: an old-fashioned manual shift experience for those occasions when you’re feeling like a hero, and the refinement and and convenience of an auto the rest of the time?"

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/04/qotd- ... nsmission/

True modern manual transmission shifting never has made it outside of the concepts, but there are some real-world and concept examples discussed in the article. Acceptable compromise for you? How about when electrics takeover?
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Re: Is The Ares Panther’s “Fake Manual” DCT Almost The Perfect Transmission?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Standardshifter wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:27 am "But wouldn’t it be great if you had one transmission that could give you the best of both worlds: an old-fashioned manual shift experience for those occasions when you’re feeling like a hero, and the refinement and and convenience of an auto the rest of the time?"

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/04/qotd- ... nsmission/

True modern manual transmission shifting never has made it outside of the concepts, but there are some real-world and concept examples discussed in the article. Acceptable compromise for you? How about when electrics takeover?
I ain't fixin' ta let no Robot shift my vehicle for me!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Gh_IcK8UM[/youtube]

I've thought about what it would take to fool someone into thinking they were driving an Amish transmission when in reality all the work was being performed by a slushbox of one sort or another. The feel of the clutch and shifting controls can be simulated, but you still have the problem of getting the drive to "actuate" the controls at the right time, in the correct sequence of events, etc. If they can't do that now, it's not going to get better when they are driving a simulated Amish vehicle. So for those that know how to do it, you could mebbe fool em', but it still wouldn't be a product for folks outside the faith.
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Re: Is The Ares Panther’s “Fake Manual” DCT Almost The Perfect Transmission?

Post by IMBoring25 »

I've long thought the way forward with take rates so low was probably going to have to be a DBW shifter and clutch, maybe with some force feedback. I envisioned it as a swappable shift quadrant and pedal box (since everything's ones and zeros anyway and it could just plug in and handshake with the computer whether or not the computer would be running the show for a given engine start). But the Toyota and Alfa solutions are intriguing from the standpoint of not even having to swap any parts.

There are indeed sometimes those things...The first time I drove a former co-worker's RX-8 was when she put her left knee into a trailer hitch on the way out to it. Switch driving mode and proceed is certainly a slick implementation.
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Re: Is The Ares Panther’s “Fake Manual” DCT Almost The Perfect Transmission?

Post by ClutchFork »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:13 pm I've thought about what it would take to fool someone into thinking they were driving an Amish transmission when in reality all the work was being performed by a slushbox of one sort or another. The feel of the clutch and shifting controls can be simulated, but you still have the problem of getting the drive to "actuate" the controls at the right time, in the correct sequence of events, etc. If they can't do that now, it's not going to get better when they are driving a simulated Amish vehicle. So for those that know how to do it, you could mebbe fool em', but it still wouldn't be a product for folks outside the faith.

I would rather do this. And in fact, this would be good to practice for the days to come when one is sitting around at the nursing home and no longer can get a driver's license. My kind of fake manual:
https://youtu.be/w9YluPOyXmg?t=54
Last edited by ClutchFork on Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
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Re: Is The Ares Panther’s “Fake Manual” DCT Almost The Perfect Transmission?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

The VW "Automatic Stickshift" had a fluid coupling to keep it from stalling while stopped and to modulate the power apply during a launch. It had an electric clutch to disengage the trans during a shift, so there would be no load on the synchronizers, which was actuated by a switch in the shifter. When the shift know was either pushed or pulled the electric clutch disengaged and when the driver released the shift knob the electric clutch reengaged. In this manner it could be driven without using a clutch pedal.

If you faked a clutch pedal, you would probably want/need to block movement of the shifter knob until the clutch pedal was pushed to the floor. You'd also want to do something with the engine's throttle, either to return it to idle or to prepare to rev-match for the upcoming shift. I doubt you'd want to allow shifting or declutching while the driver held the throttle open, even with a rev limiter.

Would you go so far as to actually control a clutching element with the clutch pedal, or just use it as a condition for allowing shift lever movement and automate any actual declutching that may be required? You'd still want to synchronize clutch disengagement and reengagement to coincide with the motion of the clutch release pedal, right?

Would you allow random declutching via the pedal, just for faeces and laughter?

Would you second-guess any mis-shifts and not allow, say, 6>1 downshifts at highway speeds?
(OK, let's all say it together now "6>1 downshifts at highway speeds")
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Re: Is The Ares Panther’s “Fake Manual” DCT Almost The Perfect Transmission?

Post by ClutchFork »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:08 am (OK, let's all say it together now "6>1 downshifts at highway speeds")

I have to add that to my things-I-would-like-to-try-before-I-die list along with the brick-on-the-gas-pedal trick, which is best done on an automatic. In fact, both are best done on an automatic, but I think the 6-1 shift will not be allowed on an automatic, unless one were to hace the computer to make it allowable.
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Re: Is The Ares Panther’s “Fake Manual” DCT Almost The Perfect Transmission?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Yanno, with triple-cone synchronizers it's all too easy to do a mis-shift and explode the clutch disk....but at least then you can't reengage the clutch and grenade the engine.
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