Tata for America

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mad_finn
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Re: Tata for America

Post by mad_finn »

Well public trasportation is good... if it works... I tried it and I couldent do it

for 15 min drive from home to work I had to take 2 huors of time to go to my work (very early morning so all buslines weren't driving yet)
that inclueded 3 bus changes and 40 minutes for waitng another bus :shock:
from work to home it worked guite well only 30 minutes wich isn't bad at all, and only one bus change on the way with about 4 minutes to swich the bus.
if it would work from early enough to late enough I could actually think about selling my cars and start riding on a buses and trains.
afterall, if we forget that I go to my parents house few times a year (3 hours drive / 3 hours with 2 buses and 1 train) and I usually carry a lot of stuff with me there.
I dont drive too much, I get enough driving in my work (7-13 hours a day depending am I driving truck or taxi)

Anyway, getting good and working public trasportation would be better than gettin thousands of personal cars.
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Re: Tata for America

Post by watkins »

Tups wrote:Well, the thing is that it's quite difficult to (re-)introduce public transport to countries where even the lower class have owned personal cars for more than half a century, like the US (I know there are other issues related to public transport as well, but that's still an important one).
The biggest issue in the US is that its too big. Our public transit is generally pretty decent in the cities. But most people dont live in cities, nor are all of the stores within close enough range for public transit to work.
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Re: Tata for America

Post by mad_finn »

paul34 wrote:Indeed. We drive quite a bit even to get to the store, in a lot of instances. In larger states, like when I was in Texas, "going to the store" might mean a 20 minute drive on a big highway.
so true in some places... like texas...
I live at allmost at our capital Helsinki... I have just about evrything in 10 min walk or 5 min by bike or car... but on northern finland "going to the store" might mean 40 min drive on main roads...

lands of long distance :)
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Re: Tata for America

Post by comingbackdown »

theholycow wrote:It's like what would happen if the original VW bug was slightly updated...

From the article:
Tata Motors already has made a European version of the four-seat car that will cost about $8,000 when it debuts in 2011, and a Tata Technologies official said privately that the U.S. version is expected to have a comparable price. The official did not want to be identified because the price has not been made public.


Warren Harris, Tata Technologies president, would only say that the price would be more than the roughly $2,500 charged in India.
At $2,500-$3,000, people will buy it. At $8,000 it will be a tough sell, and will require people to believe that it is as reliable/long-lasting as a $8,000 used car.
Like the Kia Rio? </sarcasm>
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Re: Tata for America

Post by theholycow »

comingbackdown wrote:Like the Kia Rio? </sarcasm>
Kia's early models, and the Rio, debuted with normal features and configurations. They made cars that seemed like cheaper versions of average cars. The Tata Nano is not like that.
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Re: Tata for America

Post by 1974Alfa5spd »

94Corolla5Speed wrote:I wish the original bug could be brought back. For 5k, I'd buy it.
I wish a lot of '60s, 70's, and '80s cars were brought back just the way they were. Carburetors, no emissions requirements, and most importantly of all to me, NO AIRBAGS.
All this safety and emissions crap is weighing cars down and that's why cars get worse mileage than they did in the '80s. Not to mention, the lack of airbags would kill off the worse drivers.
Yes Standardshift, I have suggested we take a step back in time.

I'm with noob on the melted/retarded Prius.
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Re: Tata for America

Post by theholycow »

1974Alfa5spd wrote:All this safety and emissions crap is weighing cars down
Common misconception. That stuff doesn't really add up to much...certainly not enough to account for all the extra weight. I think it's mainly the increased size that's weighing cars down.

I wish I could find the link...someone took apart a Camaro and weighed the parts. Things like side impact safety beams and airbags weighed 5 pounds a piece. All the usual things people complain about, like that stuff, soundproofing, and convenience stuff like power window/seat/mirror motors, only added up to a few hundred pounds at most.

I have no idea why you think fuel injection weighs much more than a nasty old carburetor.
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Re: Tata for America

Post by LHOswald »

not to mention that fuel injection is (random number i pulled out of my ass) at least 25% more efficient and because its more efficient and keeps it closer to a 14.7:1 air\fuel ratio there is less fuel being dumped out the exhaust therefore causing not only better emissions but also a lower chance of idk...your catalytic converter expwodin? carbs are great for racing because they just dump fuel in, but FI is most definitely better for normal everyday driving. its more efficient, allows you to use lower RPMs for more MPG ('specially in standards :D ) and is a lot easier to start in the morning when your not exactly in your most happy mood (for most people) and dont feel like pumping the crap out of your gas and starter for awhile to get the damn thing running.

also, i think the main reason why everything is so heavy nowadays is because 1. everything is bigger. we have to fit our fat kids into gigantic SUV's because a Honda Civic simply won't pull 2000 lbs worth of car and 1500 lbs of passengers (and at 5 people into that car that makes them weigh in at...?) so we need big SUV's with big gas hogging V8's to pull these fatasses up a hill. (stolen from Greg Giraldo, Comedian) and 2. the frame itself in cars today are made of much stronger and sturdier steel, but the tradeoff is much more weight. add in the safety features, all the extra plush seats and thick ass sound insulation to make sure we feel like we're not actually driving a car but more like flying a cloud and bam. 5000 lbs worth of car.

my friend Wes has a Saab convertible that weighs in at a whopping 3100 lbs. why so much? its a convertible, it has a ton of sound insulation, and it has comfy seats. the convertibleness makes it heavy because since there are no B pillars there is less sway support on the car so they have to make the whole frame around the bottom part of the car very sturdy to repel sway effects on the car when turning. the sound insulation probably weighs like 3099 lbs because the noise this thing makes in the cabin at redline is quieter than my truck standing still at idle. and the comfy seats add weight because anything thats comfortable in a vehicle adds weight. thats just physics. also they're heated, so thats gotta add alot of weight. thats why his convertible weighs in at around 3100 and my truck weighs in at around 2350

so pretty much instead of reading that wall of text, big vehicles, heavy support structure and nice plush features add weight. also FI>carbs for efficiency
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Re: Tata for America

Post by 1974Alfa5spd »

Well, I guess my post was poorly wordednot to mention some erroneous information.... I was kind of hinting at how it's adding expense to cars.

An aftermarket EFI system can cost upwards of $3000, where a carburetor can cost about ~$250. Airbags are "fantastically expensive*" when purchased new, and much less so when bought salvaged, but still not cheap. We've become such soft pussies that we can't take a little bit of noise, thus $500 worth of soundproofing has to be installed to make our ears happy. Then the emissions stuff, catalytic converters are, again, astronomically expensive. Having a PCV recirculation system is a waste, my car vents to the atmosphere, no problem whatsoever. EGR, again a waste of money, polluting the incoming charge of fuel and air and at the same time having to utilize a valve to do so and sensors to tell that valve when and how much to open which costs more $$$. It's easier to be grey than it is to be green.
ABS and Traction control are more of those expensive gadgets to make soccer moms feel safe. Let's disconnect/disable these systems and see how long Didi lasts in the snow in her Escalade. :twisted:
It also keeps more of those bad drivers alive. If someone is dumb enough to tailgate someone doing 65mph on a rain soaked highway and the tailgate-ee slams on his brakes (threshold braking, of course) and the tailgater plows into him and dies, GOOD. He's no longer risking other peoples lives.

Back on topic: The Tata Nano that gets to be exported to placed like Europe and America will me a prissed up version from the one in India and includes the dreaded airbags, ABS, and, of course, a bigger engine. :roll: Undoubtedly this will cost much more than $8000, I'm expecting more like $10-11,000

We're all doomed anyway, why not seal the deal?
</maniac>
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Re: Tata for America

Post by theholycow »

Ok, those are more accurate concerns, and that Tata Nano will certainly address any of them that it can while being legal to sell in the US. It will have to have safety and emissions stuff but luxury stuff will be right out.

I disagree with some of those emissions thoughts, and am willing to pay for some of the luxuries. I like not hearing/feeling the engine, and having a comfortable ride in comfortable seats. I really hate carburetors, they're such a pain in the butt. Except in a raw hardcore race car, fuel injection is so far superior to carburetors that it's ridiculous. In an everyday car owned by an everyday average joe, fuel injection will provide more power and easier usage while paying for itself quickly in fuel and maintenance savings.

Carburetors aren't exactly cheap either. If I want to replace my 1980 Buick LeSabre Limited 4.1 V6's Rochester Quadrajet 4 barrel M4ME carburetor it's going to cost me $400 or so. Find me a good one that's ready to bolt on for $50 and I'll change my tune.

Stability control costs almost nothing when you've already got ABS. ABS is actually useful because it can do things that are physically impossible for humans to do.

Back before all the safety stuff, bad drivers still survived accidents - and innocent good drivers who got hit by bad drivers died. Screw that, protect me from the guy that T-bones me while I'm stuck in a line of stopped traffic please.

I hate the overdone emissions BS stuff, but the basic stuff that makes a big difference is important. From what I understand, places like the city where you live had really awful smog all the time, stinky nasty air that you couldn't see through, back when cars were popular but catalytic converters weren't.
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Re: Tata for America

Post by watkins »

1974Alfa5spd wrote:EGR, again a waste of money, polluting the incoming charge of fuel and air and at the same time having to utilize a valve to do so and sensors to tell that valve when and how much to open which costs more $$$. It's easier to be grey than it is to be green.
EGR systems also keep the engine from destroying itself.
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Re: Tata for America

Post by LHOswald »

EGR = reduced throttle losses, reduced heat rejection, reduced chemical dissociation and reduced specific heat ratio...according to wikipedia haha
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Re: Tata for America

Post by comingbackdown »

LHOswald wrote:EGR = reduced throttle losses, reduced heat rejection, reduced chemical dissociation and reduced specific heat ratio...according to wikipedia haha
Yep, and at one point, according to wikipedia, 1940s Germany was ruled by Adolf Hitler on wheels.
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Re: Tata for America

Post by Draklen »

Didn't read the entire thread so...
We don't need cheap transportation. We already have too many shitty drivers. With super cheap cars coming, we'll have even more shitty drivers.


Just wanted to add, "Yay! Tatas for America!"
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Re: Tata for America

Post by theholycow »

Yeah, I'm not sure about the Tata, but I sure do loves me some tatas!
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