FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000 [SOLD]

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eggwich delfiero
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by eggwich delfiero » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:37 am

Sorry if I came off harsh dude, I should've figured you were using other avenues than just standardshift. And it's a tough time for selling cars, new cars, old cars, classic cars, whatever, so don't be discouraged if it takes a while.

That said, I just checked out your ebay listing and your car looks pretty badass. I'm sure you have your reasons for selling it but man, I like it.

I just googled the VIN to learn more about it and came across yourblog too. Gotta say, I like your old MX-3 too :P

Good luck with the sale!

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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by mad_finn » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:54 am

with that price... if the car would be here... I wouldent think anymore, I would buy it... but shipping corts would be too much for me :?

those cost like 5000€+ here and those are prices of the V6 models. or those wich have been modded to be pickups :(
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by Leedeth » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:42 am

I'm serious guys, I want to sell it. I'm getting desperate now. I need the money, and I'm actually tired of this car now. I still want that GTO eventually when I can afford it tho.

It doesn't have enough power and doesn't feel fast enough. And it's too loud. I don't like attracting attention to myself.

I bought this car because I wanted something cheap and fast, and as reliable as possible, but mainly just cheap and fast. I didn't think about going turbo because those cars are way more expensive, and compared to N/A, need more maintenance. So I decided to go with N/A and the biggest engine possible.


And now, WTF craigslist? Why is nobody giving me reasonable offers? Am I the only person in the area that ever wanted this car?

What I really hate about this car is that it's not practical at all. The trunk is way too small to fit much in there, and there's no goddamn cupholders!

It's always the little things that piss you off the most. No cupholders...what the f**k?

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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by theholycow » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:47 am

Leedeth wrote:And now, WTF craigslist? Why is nobody giving me reasonable offers? Am I the only person in the area that ever wanted this car?
eggwich delfiero is right, it's a tough time to sell cars. I got bored and looked for beaters on craigslist yesterday...I saw cars that I might expect to pay $3000 for, priced at $800. Cars that have no visual defects and are claimed to run properly, are nice and shiny, not too old...

Nice time to buy a cheap car, though. I wish I could get out of my VW lease early.
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by watkins » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:38 am

Leedeth wrote:I didn't think about going turbo because those cars are way more expensive, and compared to N/A, need more maintenance.
This is incorrect.
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by Rope-Pusher » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:21 pm

watkins wrote:
Leedeth wrote:I didn't think about going turbo because those cars are way more expensive, and compared to N/A, need more maintenance.
This is incorrect.
Well, they don't give turbos away for free, the increased power output creates increased thermal and mechanical stresses that have to be dealt with in the design of the vehicle (intercoolers, oil coolers, piston cooling oil sprayers, higher capacity clutches, driveshafts, engine mounts, transmissions, radiators, etc.) and most often with increased maintenance needs (if nothing else, the engine oil change intervals are usually reduced) and maybe somewhere down the line turbo rebuild or replacement and a new head gasket. For large power increases from the same base engine, the turbo may be cheaper than getting to the same power level by taking the N.A. route (and will likely have a "fatter" torque curve), but overall it might be cheaper to go with a bigger engine than to turbo a smaller engine. Consider a 3.0L V-6 with variable displacement (cylinder cut-out) vs 2.0L turbo I4. V-6 would be cheaper to produce, with maybe better fuel mileage (depending on the duty cycle of course - your mileage may vary), a nicer exhaust note, less NVH, and lower-stressed.
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by watkins » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:12 am

Point is that a turbo car can be purchased for less than large displacement and will almost always be cheaper to run day to day (fuel economy). Turbo failure isnt all that common, and relatively inexpensive to replace. Any reputable turbo vehicle will also have a well-build sturdy engine that wont be a legitimate cause for concern.
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by Rope-Pusher » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:31 am

I stand behind my previous post that turbo motors are expensive to build compared to 50% larger NA motor. With cylinder deactivation larger NA motor can be just as economical. In fact, they can be more economical at high-speed cruise, where turbo motors often use fuel mixture enrichment to cool the pistons and exhaust valves. Turbos are NOT cheap to replace and the bearings and seals DO fail.
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watkins
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by watkins » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:51 am

I can at any given time get a lead on at least 5 same size or larger turbos in good shape or better for under $300.

I love cylinder deactivation. I wish it was more practical and more vehicles used it. I still prefer the turbo method of MOAR POWAR! with fuel economy though. 30+ mpg when cruising just over 80mph is damn nice. 35ish mpg at about 65mph is nothing to complain about.

The thing that makes turbos so amazing though is how they impact the torque curve. Even variable valve timing and those other magical methods cant compete with they plateau of torque a well thought out turbo engine will put out.
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by LHOswald » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:16 pm

and thats why VVT+turbo=teh shit
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by Rope-Pusher » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:20 pm

Tummy, buying a $300 turbo would be like buying a used head gasket. I'll give you points (and condenser!) for the torque curve, although the torque curve of a 50% bigger engine is no slouch in itself, especially just off idle, if you cede to me turbo lag, trailer towing limitations and cost. What also surprised me about turbo versions of vehicles is how much weight they gain. By the time you beef up the drivetrain and cooling systems and throw in the weight of the turbo and intercooler, they are about the same weight as for larger N.A. engined vehicles.
One of the best reasons to use a turbo is if to stay under a displacement limit for vehicle taxation, but if the whole purpose of the displacement-based tax system is to encourage higher fuel mileage, then fuel mileage itself should be the taxation criteria, since there are more ways than 1 to achieve higher fuel mileage.
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by eggwich delfiero » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:05 pm

I agree with the rope guy. If the world was filled with quality turbochargers for $300, I'd have four of them. Of course, I'd still have to buy the plumbing and intercoolers and whatever, but crap, at that price who cares?
I don't really know much about turbos besides in regard to Mustangs, but a new full turbo kit with all the accessories for a foxbody Mustang is near three grand, and for an S197 is near five grand. Would be fun though. LIke I said, I don't know the prices for smaller turbos.

Remember when this thread was about a Firebird? Standardshift should be renamed threadjack.org.

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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by Rope-Pusher » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:59 pm

eggwich delfiero wrote:I agree with the rope guy. If the world was filled with quality turbochargers for $300, I'd have four of them. Of course, I'd still have to buy the plumbing and intercoolers and whatever, but crap, at that price who cares?
I don't really know much about turbos besides in regard to Mustangs, but a new full turbo kit with all the accessories for a foxbody Mustang is near three grand, and for an S197 is near five grand. Would be fun though. LIke I said, I don't know the prices for smaller turbos.

Remember when this thread was about a Firebird? Standardshift should be renamed threadjack.org.
Go read the car jacking thread - there is only one entry about car jacking!
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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000

Post by Leedeth » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:07 pm

I sold it! I f**k sold it!

For $2000.

He wanted me to drop it to $1800 but I said no.

In your face people who think it's not worth $2000!

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Re: FS: 1991 Pontiac Firebird $2000 [SOLD]

Post by six » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:50 am

Congratulations! :D
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