New to me 19 year old car

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Stelcom66
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New to me 19 year old car

Post by Stelcom66 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:22 pm

Previous to a job change over 2 years ago I had a pickup truck and a 2002 Subaru Forester 5MT. Made some changes with vehicles since the new job pays significantly less, but fortunately have a company vehicle as before. For a while I only had a truck which I do use frequently for firewood, but of course also wanted something economical and smaller. High miles is OK since I have the company van. Last week I bought a 1999 - yes almost 20 year old Honda Accord 5MT.

I wasn't going to let this one go. The few I saw online only were sold in a couple weeks. Was even considering an automatic Honda Accord, that would preferably be a 2003 or newer since they have the 5 speed automatic. I'm so glad I held out for the 5MT. It shifts like the other 5MT Accords I had in the 80s - very well. Unfortunately the '99 (6th gen) Accord has a timing belt instead of a chain, but I won't be racking up many miles. The sunroof and AC even work. Taxes and insurance are minimal, part of my goal. I was also considering a '98 CR-V 5MT - drove that knowing it was geared a lot lower than the Accord. There wasn't a highway nearby so only got it up to about 62 mph, but in 5th gear the engine was already at about 3200 rpm. The Accord is around 2450 - 2500 rpm at 65 mph, can hardly hear the engine at that speed.

Surprisingly - this '99 has a transponder (chip) key. A hardware store made unsuccessful attempts (3) at making a door only key. Looks like I'll need to bring it to the dealership to have a chip key cut based on the VIN. The hardware store thought (maybe they're right) my key was too dull to make a good copy from it. An example of the kinds of issues I may encounter with a car this age.

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ClutchFork
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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by ClutchFork » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:34 pm

Well they should be able to at least make a key to open the door with. That way if you lock the chip key in, you can open the door.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...

Stelcom66
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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by Stelcom66 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:32 pm

That's what the hardware store attempted since they only had a blank for just the door in stock. I've had other standard keys made there before with no trouble. I tried 3 different keys they made in the driver and passenger door. I could insert but not turn them. The original is fine in both.

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ClutchFork
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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by ClutchFork » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:50 pm

Stelcom66 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:32 pm
That's what the hardware store attempted since they only had a blank for just the door in stock. I've had other standard keys made there before with no trouble. I tried 3 different keys they made in the driver and passenger door. I could insert but not turn them. The original is fine in both.
Strange. I had two sets of keys made for the 1992 Mustang off of the originals which were very worn and both sets work fine. But I had a key made for the 2001 S10 and it is not right. They even made another one for free and it is not right either. works fine on one side but on the other you have to pull it about 1/6th inch out for it to turn. One difference is the Mustang originals were flat metal blanks, whereas the S10 had a thicker plastic head. would that hinder the line up in the key machine? Maybe I'll try a locksmith. I have a really good one about 6 miles away.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...

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potownrob
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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by potownrob » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:49 am

wow, nice find, if it's in decent shape overall at least. never heard of a honda having a chip in the key for the doors. is that an EX?? maybe that generation had it on the higher end models. i had a 96 (previous gen) accord ex manual and a 15 accord sport manual (and a 93 lx auto and 03 lx auto), so very familiar with these cars. my sister had an 02 accord special edition; can't remember how the key/remote (if any) worked with that one. the 03 and newer models have the remote buttons built into the key and the key is one of those special keys you can't get cut at home depot (as far as i know at least). 96 accord just had a regular key. nice cars, especially the 96 for its time - not quick but luxurious feeling, modern for its time and fairly fuel efficient. have heard good things about 1st gen cr-vs too, but never driven one. the 2nd gen manual i drove was quick and fun.
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by Stelcom66 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:26 am

ClutchFork wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:50 pm
Stelcom66 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:32 pm
That's what the hardware store attempted since they only had a blank for just the door in stock. I've had other standard keys made there before with no trouble. I tried 3 different keys they made in the driver and passenger door. I could insert but not turn them. The original is fine in both.
Strange. I had two sets of keys made for the 1992 Mustang off of the originals which were very worn and both sets work fine. But I had a key made for the 2001 S10 and it is not right. They even made another one for free and it is not right either. works fine on one side but on the other you have to pull it about 1/6th inch out for it to turn. One difference is the Mustang originals were flat metal blanks, whereas the S10 had a thicker plastic head. would that hinder the line up in the key machine? Maybe I'll try a locksmith. I have a really good one about 6 miles away.
When my youngest son was here I had a key made for his 1995 Subaru. It was like the spare for your S10, had to pull it out a bit for it to turn. Didn't mind since it was seldomly used, usually just to move it. What I don't get it is mine works fine in the door and it's worn, an exact copy should work as well. Maybe the machine wasn't precise enough.

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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by Stelcom66 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:52 am

Yes it's an EX. It is in decent shape. I do need to address the small amount of rust. I'll check to see how to post a picture on here. The chip only disables the immobilizer which allows the engine to start. The copies made just weren't exact enough. I wouldn't mind if I had to fool with a spare key just a bit, but all 3 spares made just wouldn't turn at all. I've had many Subarus over the years - this is my first Honda since the 90s and I gotta say - now I know what I was missing. While the Subaru standard transmissions were fine to drive, this old Honda is so smooth IMO. Hondas (according to Consumer Reports) have a reputation for not being so quiet - I guess I don't know what quiet is. This car is quieter than anything I've driven for years, even the 2007 Honda Pilot I had for about a year.

The first year for the chip key was 1998, and I believe the VTEC engine as well. The chip, while complicating things is probably a good idea since Hondas (new and old) are up there on the list of stolen cars. Ace Hardware now has a Duracell display with all kinds of replacement keys and FOBs, so you could get a copy of the 2003 + years or whatever configuration. Of course not inexpensive, but I think a wise investment. I was seriously considering the '98 CR-V, but really didn't need AWD sine i have the 4WD truck. Fuel economy and comfort is better with the Accord. The standard shift CR-Vs don't come with armrests. Sound insulation was minimal in the 1st gen CR-V, that and the engine well above 3000 rpm at highway speeds makes for a not so relaxing ride. Otherwise, on town roads it was a pleasure to drive. I noticed on the new Accords the standard transmission is only available on the Sport model. If I won the lottery I think that's what I'd get. My 1999 is something maybe even a high school kid wouldn't even consider - but I'm very satisfied with it, driving it is more enjoyable than I imagined. To give you an idea of my age my grandson recently turned 6.

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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by Stelcom66 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:01 pm

Regarding the spare key copy - went to a Honda dealership today, I was there less than a half hour. A good chip key copy was made from the VIN, the car's ECU was not accessed. The tech said older Hondas chip keys can be (or are) programmed from the key itself, or totally from the VIN. The tech did take the key into the shop with him, don't know if it was still necessary to read info from the key. The price at a couple hardware stores would have been around $80. I was willing to pay the extra price and make an appointment at the dealership to have to done right. The total cost with tax at this dealership was $37.21.

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potownrob
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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by potownrob » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:47 am

Stelcom66 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:52 am
Yes it's an EX. It is in decent shape. I do need to address the small amount of rust. I'll check to see how to post a picture on here. The chip only disables the immobilizer which allows the engine to start. The copies made just weren't exact enough. I wouldn't mind if I had to fool with a spare key just a bit, but all 3 spares made just wouldn't turn at all. I've had many Subarus over the years - this is my first Honda since the 90s and I gotta say - now I know what I was missing. While the Subaru standard transmissions were fine to drive, this old Honda is so smooth IMO. Hondas (according to Consumer Reports) have a reputation for not being so quiet - I guess I don't know what quiet is. This car is quieter than anything I've driven for years, even the 2007 Honda Pilot I had for about a year.
anyone calling hondas loud is not comparing them to a subaru. not only they much quieter (stock) than just about any subaru, but they're more refined, ergonomically superior, more reliable, easier to shift, etc. shifting a typical manual honda is night and day compared to your average subaru; brz may be the exception, and i think part of it is that it's RWD instead of AWD (or FWD). i've never driven an AWD subaru that shifted very smoothly, especially compared to a 90s honda.
The first year for the chip key was 1998, and I believe the VTEC engine as well. The chip, while complicating things is probably a good idea since Hondas (new and old) are up there on the list of stolen cars. Ace Hardware now has a Duracell display with all kinds of replacement keys and FOBs, so you could get a copy of the 2003 + years or whatever configuration. Of course not inexpensive, but I think a wise investment. I was seriously considering the '98 CR-V, but really didn't need AWD sine i have the 4WD truck. Fuel economy and comfort is better with the Accord. The standard shift CR-Vs don't come with armrests. Sound insulation was minimal in the 1st gen CR-V, that and the engine well above 3000 rpm at highway speeds makes for a not so relaxing ride. Otherwise, on town roads it was a pleasure to drive. I noticed on the new Accords the standard transmission is only available on the Sport model. If I won the lottery I think that's what I'd get. My 1999 is something maybe even a high school kid wouldn't even consider - but I'm very satisfied with it, driving it is more enjoyable than I imagined. To give you an idea of my age my grandson recently turned 6.
VTAK came out here in the early 90s, in the Integra GSR and NSX. Too lazy to research when we first got V-TECH in an actual Honda but I know my 94 Civic and 96 Accord had it (in SOHC form). I believe it was in overseas engines starting in the late 80s and the original design was derived from the early 80s. Late 90s Accord vs. CR-V, the Accord is way more comfortable, and I always found it luxurious for a non-luxury car, for that generation at least.
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by potownrob » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:50 am

Stelcom66 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:01 pm
Regarding the spare key copy - went to a Honda dealership today, I was there less than a half hour. A good chip key copy was made from the VIN, the car's ECU was not accessed. The tech said older Hondas chip keys can be (or are) programmed from the key itself, or totally from the VIN. The tech did take the key into the shop with him, don't know if it was still necessary to read info from the key. The price at a couple hardware stores would have been around $80. I was willing to pay the extra price and make an appointment at the dealership to have to done right. The total cost with tax at this dealership was $37.21.
HOORAY!!!! glad you got it done, and not too expensively either. :mrgreen:
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by Stelcom66 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:35 pm

potownrob wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:47 am
anyone calling hondas loud is not comparing them to a subaru. not only they much quieter (stock) than just about any subaru, but they're more refined, ergonomically superior, more reliable, easier to shift, etc. shifting a typical manual honda is night and day compared to your average subaru; brz may be the exception, and i think part of it is that it's RWD instead of AWD (or FWD). i've never driven an AWD subaru that shifted very smoothly, especially compared to a 90s honda.

VTAK came out here in the early 90s, in the Integra GSR and NSX. Too lazy to research when we first got V-TECH in an actual Honda but I know my 94 Civic and 96 Accord had it (in SOHC form). I believe it was in overseas engines starting in the late 80s and the original design was derived from the early 80s. Late 90s Accord vs. CR-V, the Accord is way more comfortable, and I always found it luxurious for a non-luxury car, for that generation at least.
I suppose part of the Subaru's appeal was it's slight crudeness, which includes the distinctive sound of the flat-4 engine. Overall though, the driving experience for me is so much better in the Honda, ironically - one that's even older than my 2002 Forester.

The Accord certainly is more comfortable than the CR-V, I suppose the CR-V's appeal to me was the hint of crudeness kind of like the Forester. But taking the Accord on the highway I'm really liking the choice. At 70 mph I think I'm around 2700-2800 rpm. I can only imagine where'd the CR-V would be, maybe 3400? Still, not berating the CR-V. Most owners have positive reviews and many over 200K miles.

And thanks re: the key! Learned something about the technology too.

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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by potownrob » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:58 am

Stelcom66 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:35 pm
I suppose part of the Subaru's appeal was it's slight crudeness, which includes the distinctive sound of the flat-4 engine. Overall though, the driving experience for me is so much better in the Honda, ironically - one that's even older than my 2002 Forester.

The Accord certainly is more comfortable than the CR-V, I suppose the CR-V's appeal to me was the hint of crudeness kind of like the Forester. But taking the Accord on the highway I'm really liking the choice. At 70 mph I think I'm around 2700-2800 rpm. I can only imagine where'd the CR-V would be, maybe 3400? Still, not berating the CR-V. Most owners have positive reviews and many over 200K miles.

And thanks re: the key! Learned something about the technology too.
what did i teach you about the key?? i've never driven a 1st gen cr-v, though i almost looked at one on at least two occasions. i have driven a 2nd gen manual cr-v and automatic 3rd and 4th gen models (and owned a 4th gen 2012 model for a whole year, or close to it...). the 2nd gen cr-v had a similar fun feel to the 4th gen foresters i've driven, but more powerful (while not as loud) feeling. i remember not wanting to return to the dealer, and this was a beat-up 2002 model. i also didn't want to return the 2015 forester i test drove, but the 2014 i later drove was not as fun or powerful feeling.
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.

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Re: New to me 19 year old car

Post by Stelcom66 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:26 pm

potownrob wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:58 am

what did i teach you about the key?? i've never driven a 1st gen cr-v, though i almost looked at one on at least two occasions. i have driven a 2nd gen manual cr-v and automatic 3rd and 4th gen models (and owned a 4th gen 2012 model for a whole year, or close to it...). the 2nd gen cr-v had a similar fun feel to the 4th gen foresters i've driven, but more powerful (while not as loud) feeling. i remember not wanting to return to the dealer, and this was a beat-up 2002 model. i also didn't want to return the 2015 forester i test drove, but the 2014 i later drove was not as fun or powerful feeling.
I was saying thanks for you saying glad I got the key copy done.
potownrob wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:58 am
HOORAY!!!! glad you got it done, and not too expensively either. :mrgreen:

I drove a 3rd gen CR-V with a 5 speed auto - better than the 4 speed auto I drove but it downshifted on the slightest grade. That was typical of the Subaru Outback 4AT I had. The 2nd gen 5MT CR-Vs were also geared quite low, but a bit higher than the 1st gens. I like the way this Accord feels like it's geared tall compared to other cars and the SUV (Forester) I had.

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