Well, one big reason is that brake pads are less expensive to replace than clutch linings. It would be difficult to downshift all the time and never put any wear and tear on the clutch. Do you try to rev-match your downshifts?emilyk wrote:I am having a hard time thinking of a situation when I don't. Why use the brakes when I can use the natural deceleration of the engine to slow me down? Also, I live in an area that is very hilly so it is a huge help going down those big hills! Anyway, aren't you supposed to downshift?
Downshifting
Re: Downshifting
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Re: Downshifting
You're not "supposed" to downshift; it's entirely at your option except in certain situations that almost require it (such as long descents, which may be what you mean by "big hills") and those that contraindicate it (like when some jerk is tailgating you and you need to slow down heavily -- in which case you really need your brake lights to come on). There's no need to avoid using your brakes for normal braking duty; they are made for that job and they are very good at it, they work well in automatics, and normal wear on them is cheaper than normal wear on synchros/clutch (or the slight amount of fuel used in a perfect double-clutch rev match -- though if your ECU engages DFCO aggressively then you might save enough to compensate).
Downshift for engine braking because you want to, but not because of the mistaken impression that there is any advantage over using the service brakes for normal braking duties.
Downshift for engine braking because you want to, but not because of the mistaken impression that there is any advantage over using the service brakes for normal braking duties.
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watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
Re: Downshifting
I don't understand how one wouldn't downshift. What do you do then? If you in 5th and the car in front of you suddenly slows down and then you must accelerate again. Are you just going to slowly release clutch and slip to 3rd or something? That would take so long without getting a jerk.
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Re: Downshifting
That IS downshifting sans rev-match.
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Re: Downshifting
This thread is about sequential downshifting while coming to a stop, not about unexpected slowing down, accelerating, or block shifting.rml605 wrote:I don't understand how one wouldn't downshift. What do you do then? If you in 5th and the car in front of you suddenly slows down and then you must accelerate again. Are you just going to slowly release clutch and slip to 3rd or something? That would take so long without getting a jerk.
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watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
- bk7794
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Re: Downshifting
When coming to an off ramp I usually never downshift in a sequential pattern. I'll either shift straight from 5th to 3rd or go from 5th to 4th if it's not a tight off ramp.
But when coming to a stop, I occasionally only do 5th to 4th, and maybe to 3rd all while rev matching and not hitting the brake. But that is only on a rare occasion.
But when coming to a stop, I occasionally only do 5th to 4th, and maybe to 3rd all while rev matching and not hitting the brake. But that is only on a rare occasion.
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Re: Downshifting
how's the new civic treating you??bk7794 wrote:When coming to an off ramp I usually never downshift in a sequential pattern. I'll either shift straight from 5th to 3rd or go from 5th to 4th if it's not a tight off ramp.
But when coming to a stop, I occasionally only do 5th to 4th, and maybe to 3rd all while rev matching and not hitting the brake. But that is only on a rare occasion.
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
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Re: Downshifting
Downshifting a gear or 2 when slowing down and going into DFCO is also a good way to lower engine temp by a few degrees, if you are concerned about that.
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Re: Downshifting
I definitely wasn't suggesting you should avoid your brakes - in my mind you downshift while you are braking (or don't if you are just slowing yourself down, whatever the situation is). If you don't downshift, do you just brake while in neutral or with your foot on the clutch? That's the part I don't get.
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Re: Downshifting
Typically, if I know (within the limits of knowing in the ever-changing circumstance that is traffic) that I'll be slowing down to a stop:
I stay in whatever gear I happen to be in, take my foot entirely off the gas, and allow the car to coast toward the intersection. If I'm not slowing quickly enough, then I'll apply brakes while staying in gear. As soon as my rpms get down to idle speed (in my car, ~600rpm), I'll clutch in, shift to neutral, and clutch out, while continuing to apply the brakes as needed. Once I'm stopped, I'll sit in neutral with the clutch out until I need to get moving again.
This gets me the benefit of gas savings via engine braking and general smoothness with my throttle inputs (no need to blip through downshifts, etc.), and is generally the easiest method on the driveline. I'll adjust my technique to changing circumstances or when driving aggressively, but on the daily commute, that's how I handle it.
I stay in whatever gear I happen to be in, take my foot entirely off the gas, and allow the car to coast toward the intersection. If I'm not slowing quickly enough, then I'll apply brakes while staying in gear. As soon as my rpms get down to idle speed (in my car, ~600rpm), I'll clutch in, shift to neutral, and clutch out, while continuing to apply the brakes as needed. Once I'm stopped, I'll sit in neutral with the clutch out until I need to get moving again.
This gets me the benefit of gas savings via engine braking and general smoothness with my throttle inputs (no need to blip through downshifts, etc.), and is generally the easiest method on the driveline. I'll adjust my technique to changing circumstances or when driving aggressively, but on the daily commute, that's how I handle it.
Last edited by RITmusic2k on Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Downshifting
Yes, just push the clutch in and brake or throw it in neutral and brake. It depends on my mood, if, when, or how many gears I'll downshift. The place I use downshifting the most is when I'm exiting the highway.emilyk wrote: If you don't downshift, do you just brake while in neutral or with your foot on the clutch? That's the part I don't get.
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Re: Downshifting
FYI, there's no harm in staying in gear while braking, as long as you don't let the engine revs down below idle rpm...
Re: Downshifting
This. I stay in whatever gear I'm in until it gets close to idle, then throw it in neutral to come to a stop. If I think I might move again before coming to a completely stop, I'll downshift as I see appropriate.RITmusic2k wrote:FYI, there's no harm in staying in gear while braking, as long as you don't let the engine revs down below idle rpm...
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Re: Downshifting
Yea I know. Usually if i'm coming to a red light and not planning to downshift, i'll pull my foot off of the gas and in whatever gear i'm in let it engine brake until I get near idle rpm, then clutch in and brake. Sometimes I've downshifted all the way into 1st while braking the whole time.RITmusic2k wrote:FYI, there's no harm in staying in gear while braking, as long as you don't let the engine revs down below idle rpm...
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Re: Downshifting
A lot of times i can slip it out of gear without using the clutch once it is going slow enough that there is no pull from engine braking.ClutchDisc wrote:Yea I know. Usually if i'm coming to a red light and not planning to downshift, i'll pull my foot off of the gas and in whatever gear i'm in let it engine brake until I get near idle rpm, then clutch in and brake. Sometimes I've downshifted all the way into 1st while braking the whole time.RITmusic2k wrote:FYI, there's no harm in staying in gear while braking, as long as you don't let the engine revs down below idle rpm...
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theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...