Got another standard shift

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Shadow
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by Shadow »

potownrob wrote:....as for the RWD dilemma, i've heard of people driving them in the snow with good tires, though i doubt it's half as safe as the 4WD.
I once owned a RWD Ranger. Biggest mistake ever when it came to driving in a typical NY winter. Even with dedicated snow tires and sand bags in the bed, it still had very poor traction. That's the first and last time I ever purchased a truck or SUV without 4wd. In comparison, my 4Runner is like a tank....virtually unstoppable in the snow. 8)
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by watkins »

Stelcom66 wrote:After buying the Dakota I wondered why sales weren't good enough to keep it in production
Because the newer Dakotas were awful
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by ClutchFork »

watkins wrote:
Stelcom66 wrote:After buying the Dakota I wondered why sales weren't good enough to keep it in production
Because the newer Dakotas were awful
My dad used to say to 'leave well enough alone," but the auto companies never seem to get it. The best thing is to refine the car to perfection, but instead they focus on change and, in so doing, ruin a good thing.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by watkins »

Absolutely. Chrysler cheapened their product line and really messed it up. The Dakota was one of the hardest hit.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by Stelcom66 »

InlinePaul wrote:
watkins wrote:
Stelcom66 wrote:After buying the Dakota I wondered why sales weren't good enough to keep it in production
Because the newer Dakotas were awful
My dad used to say to 'leave well enough alone," but the auto companies never seem to get it. The best thing is to refine the car to perfection, but instead they focus on change and, in so doing, ruin a good thing.
Happens with so many vehicles. Sometimes you wonder what in the world were they thinking, especially when there's a radical change like the last generation Dakota. I also heard most everyone wants a full size pickup. I can understand that, I would have bought one if I found one with a standard shift. But now I'm thinking for my needs the Dakota will do well. While the bed isn't 4' between the wheel wells, there what appears to be sections built into the bedliner to hold 2X4s to fit a 4X8 sheet on the wheel wells, with the gate down of course.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by theholycow »

I would agree with "leave well enough alone" but that wouldn't matter...the market, the collection of people who actually pay money to dealers for new vehicles, doesn't agree. Changing conditions cause requirements and the market's preferences to change. Even when that doesn't happen, just keeping a good vehicle good results in reviews like "outdated", "parts-bin interior", "boring", etc. Most people don't want the same one they had before and won't pay tens of thousands of dollars for it.

And that's all assuming that we could all agree on "well enough", which we certainly can't.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by Stelcom66 »

Part of this reply is to see if I edited my profile correctly, I added my vehicles to my signature. Just got the squeal repaired on the Dakota, it was just the belt. Wish I diagnosed it further as I've done that repair before. Now that I can really enjoy driving the truck I'm glad I pursued the search. I think now Toyota and Nissan offer the only new trucks with standard shifts. Even used are very rare. While researching I'd be directed to posts with discussions of pickup trucks with standard shifts. I'd then think there's more out there than I realized like us preferring them - only then to realize the posts were from 2002! Glad to see Subaru is still offering them in the new Foresters and Outbacks. I believe the Forester is the only AWD SUV available now with a standard shift.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by watkins »

The Ram 2500 and 3500 with a Cummins are available with a six speed.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by IMBoring25 »

You can get gas Rams with the 6-speed also, but they would be the only full-size. The Titan and Tundra are both automatic-only...You have to go smaller with the Frontier or Tacoma if you want a clutch in a foreign truck. There's a chance for Chevy's new Colorado replacement but that remains to be seen.

On the SUV front there's also the Porsche Cayenne. Further, while they call it 4WD to be consistent with their brand identity, the system Jeep puts in the Patriot and Compass is functionally an AWD system.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by Stelcom66 »

When I went to the ramtrucks.com website (the trucks aren't on dodge.com) I only saw 6 or 8 speed automatics, even on the base Tradesman model. Maybe a standard shift could be special ordered?

Driving the Dodge Dakota standard shift for the first time up and down the hills I typically travel had me believe again this transmission is the way to go. The Silverado would sometimes drop down 2 gears and generally seem to have a harder time coping. The 3.9 V6 with the 5 speed manual seems like a good combination. I can't hold 5th gear as long as I can with my Subaru Forester, but the Dakota has 3.21 gears and is turning about 650 rpm lower than the Forester in 5th.
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Re: Got another standard shift

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You have to get a real truck to get a manual in a Ram. 2500 or 3500 with a Cummins diesel. None of that pretend truck 1500 garbage.

Personally, I see no reason for 1/2 ton trucks to exist. Either get a 1/4 ton (which isnt really easy any more) or step it up to a 3/4+. People who buy 1/2 ton trucks either never load them much (buy a 1/4 ton) or overload them beyond the capabilities of the vehicle (buy a 3/4 ton or bigger). This is evidenced by all the trucks I see at work. 1500s with no hitch and no bedliner and not a scratch to be seen are the norm. Otherwise we see 1500s sagging and breaking from overloaded beds.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by AHTOXA »

You know what's weird? I really like the new Ram Express with a hemi. I would even (gasp) own it in an auto. Too bad that I can't get by with a standard cab - no way.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by tankinbeans »

Makes sense that Ram wouldn't show up on Dodge's website. They're technically another brand now.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by watkins »

AHTOXA wrote:You know what's weird? I really like the new Ram Express with a hemi. I would even (gasp) own it in an auto. Too bad that I can't get by with a standard cab - no way.
Ram really does make the best trucks on the market now. And thats coming from someone who hated most Mopar for most of his car-aware life. The styling is the most aggressive and masculine without turning into a giant brick, the interior is fantastic, and the options are pretty cool. I think RamBoxes are a great idea, for example. And of course the Hemi is pretty damn bulletproof.
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Re: Got another standard shift

Post by theholycow »

I spent a bunch of time writing up a detailed reply then lost it in a network error. Drat. Let me try again.

(Disclaimer: While I dislike the outdated and inaccurate "-ton" monikers, they were used in the quoted material and are a clear way to compare models.)
watkins wrote:You have to get a real truck to get a manual in a Ram. 2500 or 3500 with a Cummins diesel. None of that pretend truck 1500 garbage.

Personally, I see no reason for 1/2 ton trucks to exist. Either get a 1/4 ton (which isnt really easy any more) or step it up to a 3/4+. People who buy 1/2 ton trucks either never load them much (buy a 1/4 ton) or overload them beyond the capabilities of the vehicle (buy a 3/4 ton or bigger). This is evidenced by all the trucks I see at work. 1500s with no hitch and no bedliner and not a scratch to be seen are the norm. Otherwise we see 1500s sagging and breaking from overloaded beds.
You are correct that 1/2 ton pickups are almost universally used for duties best accomplished by a subcompact car. However, I would not use bedliners as a benchmark; they are used by those same people to keep the bed pretty as much as they are used for truck work. Go check out a truck forum full of people who don't use their trucks as trucks, read some bedliner brand flame wars.

As for durability I can't be sure about Chrysler products, and Asian products (I'm looking at you, my dad's Tundra!) may in fact be as you describe, but Ford and GM build theirs with useful ratings and plenty of margin for those ratings. They are perfectly matched for spending the day on the road hauling 1000-2000 pounds of equipment/materials, which is a job I had. A 1/4 ton is undersized for the load and their cabs are not large enough for my comfort. A 3/4 or 1 ton may have a more bouncy ride, costs more to purchase, uses much more fuel, and costs more to maintain.

The modern 1/2 ton is also a perfect match for my up-to-6000lb camper. With the marketing-driven tow rating arms race, a modern 1/4 ton might be rated for it but may not be safe, stable, or have much margin for error. A modern 3/4 or 1 ton would be a wasteful amount of truck for the job.

I once accidentally hauled what I estimated as over 3000 pounds of mud (I asked for 1/2 yard of dry dirt but that's not what they dumped into my bed). It was safe and stable, but it was the first time I actually felt a load rather than having to just remember that it's there. If I did that daily it would probably contribute excess wear and premature failures, but then it's more than 1000 pounds overloaded.

It's the 3/4 ton that I don't get. Reportedly the only build difference between the 3/4 ton and a single-rear-wheel 1 ton is the overload springs (and maybe available engines/options); even if there are more substantial differences the practical effect is minimal. Yes, SRW 1 tons are offered (I just checked in case that changed recently) and no they aren't pointless. I know if I wanted to haul a serious amount of weight in the relatively small bed of a full-size pickup I'd skip right over the 2500.
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