A good automatic?

[ClutchFork]

Well if it is not a contradiction (a good automatic) at least some of us must drive automatics out of necessity such as company car or wife's car at times. Anyhow, I have a 2005 Mercury Mountaineer that has a funky complex automatic that I just hate and that does not shift the way you would want it to. Way too complicated. But joy, I just bought what I hope to be it's replacement (once my wife makes the transition): I bought a 1999 Plymouth Voyager 2.4L with 3-speed automatic--Nice and Simple and shifts well. It is much better behaved and much easier to drive and rides nicer than that crummy old Mountaineer. Just seems they made thing nicer back then.

Nonetheless, I drove it to work the other day to give it a good run (15 miles one way) and see how everything is. I did miss my manual transmission. Ah well, it is a big improvement over the Mountaineer in comfort, ride quality, ease of operation, and fuel mileage. To think they made these things with manual transmissions for a while.

I have to envy my son as he never drives automatics and intends never to start so long as he can help it. I told him he has to find a wife who is a manual transmission nut too. But I should not complain as I have been driving stick in my personal vehicle since 1977 including two 3-on-the-tree shifters.

[theholycow]

Most automatics are too downshift-happy, I give it a little gas to get up a hill or accelerate a little and suddenly it's in 2nd gear at 5800RPM.

My 2002 GMC Sierra 1500's 4L60E behaves very much the way I want it to. I can get on the gas to get most of my torque in play without it snapping my neck with a sudden downshift, but when I put that hammer down it downshifts immediately. Plus, if I'm in a hyper mood I can click the Tow/Haul button and it will downshift with less pedal input, but I don't do that often. I can also downshift ahead of time and it's obedient, but again that's not something I need to do often. My only real complaint is one time I was towing right at my GCWR up a mountain that used a straight-up road instead of switchbacks and it was indecisive; it'd accelerate in 2nd, then shift to 3rd but there wasn't enough torque at that RPM and gear ratio so speed would fall and it'd downshift to 2nd again.

So, what was the undesirable behavior in the Mountaineer's transmission?

[ClutchFork]

1992 Aerostar we have had for past 18 years (and hope to offload soon) was downshift happy. Has 4 speed auto vacuum modulated. With the 3.0 V6 I could get that thing to do the 1-2 at 5700 rpm.

My motorhome (Chevy 454 V8 and a Ford 460 V8) all had nicely shifting autos.

The Mountaineer though, has an aluminum valve body and typically a small bit of foreign matter lodges in the valve bore, which is simply aluminum, and causes problems. The fix is a couple thousand dollars for a whole new valve body with hard metal sleeves in the bores. Anyway, when you stomp the pedal hard at speed the Mountaineer goes into limbo like neutral state and winds out then if you don't back off it will SLAM into gear with a heavy jerk. I have to work the pedal until I feel the downshift coming in before I can really step on it. Needless to say, if you are stomping the pedal it is for a reason and you really can't afford to monkey around waiting for the tranny to respond. Then the Mountaineer has a fancy heating AC system that is near impossible to adjust while driving. I want to go back to the three dial system. Last problem with the Mountaineer is the 4.0 V6 is way too powerful (and to think they could also be had with a V8).

Once had a shop rebuild my auto tranny in an '85 Bonneville and they set it up for towing with stiffer springs in the valve body. That car shifted nicely--for an automatic.

If I had to drive an automatic (say I lost my left leg and right arm) I would want firm shifting as the norm. Nice as you have the feature for stiffer shifting as a towing option you can switch on. Probably leave it on all the time. Or maybe go for a full manual valve body, though I heard they are not very streetable (not sure why though).

[IMBoring25]

A few years after I put a Limited Slip axle under my first car, when it was still my only car, I was driving down an icy road that had a fairly substantial crown. Under light throttle the transmission upshifted firmly enough to send the car skewing across the lane. That put a bad taste in my mouth for firm-shifting automatics.

[Shadow]

My 4Runner has a great automatic transmission. I honestly have no complaints at all with it. It's definitely not "downshift happy" as others have mentioned, but that's probably because it's only a 4-speed automatic. It seems to me that automatics with lots of speeds are the ones that really seem to be downshifting (and upshifting, for that matter) all the time.

[bk7794]

Oh God the 3 speeds are terrible. I hope they have atleast changed the design from my rents 95. They've gone through 3. I've never driven it on the original transmission but now it accelerates terribly from the 40-50mph range.

The best auto I think I have driven was my parents 02 focus. I guess it was partly designed by Mazda. It has smooth shifts though the gearing is a bit wide. When I would take off on this hill from my friends house my 1.5 civic would atleast accelerate to 50 in a timely manner whereas the focus would get caught in too high of a gear and to jump it down a gear would cause the engine to rev obnoxiously high. Though in normal day to day driving it feels nice.

I've always felt the sloppiness in the Tauruses they've owned.

[ClutchFork]

My 4Runner has a great automatic transmission. I honestly have no complaints at all with it. It's definitely not "downshift happy" as others have mentioned, but that's probably because it's only a 4-speed automatic. It seems to me that automatics with lots of speeds are the ones that really seem to be downshifting (and upshifting, for that matter) all the time.

The Aerostar 3.0 is a 4 speed, but the problem there was a grossly under powered engine causing the need to downshift harder and deeper. Also the Aerostar would sometimes flip flop between gears like I hit it hard and it would go down 2 gears then back up one and maybe back down again like it didn't know what to do. I like when you can put your foot into the throttle firmly say to speed up moderately in a higher gear without having it downshift, and the Aerostar was not good for that, but the motorhome was great, you really had to mash on the motorhome accelerator to get a kick down.

[bk7794]

My 4Runner has a great automatic transmission. I honestly have no complaints at all with it. It's definitely not "downshift happy" as others have mentioned, but that's probably because it's only a 4-speed automatic. It seems to me that automatics with lots of speeds are the ones that really seem to be downshifting (and upshifting, for that matter) all the time.

The Aerostar 3.0 is a 4 speed, but the problem there was a grossly under powered engine causing the need to downshift harder and deeper. Also the Aerostar would sometimes flip flop between gears like I hit it hard and it would go down 2 gears then back up one and maybe back down again like it didn't know what to do. I like when you can put your foot into the throttle firmly say to speed up moderately in a higher gear without having it downshift, and the Aerostar was not good for that, but the motorhome was great, you really had to mash on the motorhome accelerator to get a kick down.

It's funny how you say it would flip flop between gears. My old car was an 87 Taurus that my rents had for me to drive and at 35mph exactly the car would upshift and then downshift immediately. I always thought it was just getting ready to blow. The thing had a 3.0 aswell.

Oh I also should say, maybe the 2.4 might take the 3 speed better due to the less torque and power it makes compared to the 3.0.

[six]

You guys and all your old-school cars...

[theholycow]

Last problem with the Mountaineer is the 4.0 V6 is way too powerful (and to think they could also be had with a V8).

Once had a shop rebuild my auto tranny in an '85 Bonneville and they set it up for towing with stiffer springs in the valve body. That car shifted nicely--for an automatic.

If I had to drive an automatic (say I lost my left leg and right arm) I would want firm shifting as the norm. Nice as you have the feature for stiffer shifting as a towing option you can switch on. Probably leave it on all the time. Or maybe go for a full manual valve body, though I heard they are not very streetable (not sure why though).

Your 4.0 must have been different from the one I had in a 1997 Ranger. That thing was a dog.

That's another thing I like about my GMC's transmission. The firmness is just about right.

I imagine driving manual valve body would be really annoying...it's all the attention of shifting for yourself with none of the reward. No synchros to feel. No 2-dimensional shifting. No clutch pedal. Just pushing that silly stick forward and backward one click at a time like you are a solenoid.

A few years after I put a Limited Slip axle under my first car, when it was still my only car, I was driving down an icy road that had a fairly substantial crown. Under light throttle the transmission upshifted firmly enough to send the car skewing across the lane. That put a bad taste in my mouth for firm-shifting automatics.

That should have put a bad taste in your mouth for limited slip differentials. Manual locking or open for me, please. A firm shift isn't the only time that can happen with limited slip or automatic locking.

It's funny how you say it would flip flop between gears. My old car was an 87 Taurus that my rents had for me to drive and at 35mph exactly the car would upshift and then downshift immediately. I always thought it was just getting ready to blow. The thing had a 3.0 aswell.

"Hunting" is what that flip flop is called and it used to be a huge complaint about automatics, especially in underpowered vehicles. Computers have largely eliminated it.

My mom bought a brand new 1988 Ford Probe 4-banger, that car hunted pretty bad.

[ClutchFork]

Ah yes, Hunting, that is the word for it.

The 2005 Mountaineer is a SOHC 4.0. Very powerful. I think 210 hp and 240 lb ft, where as the pushrod 4.0 in the Ranger was something like 165 hp and torque.

[scionkid]

Besides the 10 speed ZFAstronic (an automated 10 speed manual that the DMV classifies as an auto since there are only 2 pedals), I'd say my mom's Honda Fit with a 5 speed auto is the best auto I've driven.

-It never hunts for any gear while going uphill; there are cars that claims to have hill logic but would only lock out the top gear and hunt in the lower gears.
-A small engine benefits from a 5 speed because the engine doesn't drop out of its sweet spot after every upshift, which happens with 4 speed autos.
-When it senses that you're lifting off the throttle abruptly instead of smoothly rolls off, which you would likely do when a kid darts across in front of you, it holds the current gear for a few seconds instead of upshifting. It annoys my dad, who doesn't know what fine throttle control is, but I really like this feature.
-Torque converter clutch does not unlock when you release the throttle. When you get back on the throttle, you get the power immediately. Those automatic that does feels really squishy when you get back on the power.

[mapman85]

I've really disliked most of the newer automatic transmissions I've driven (even more reason I chose to indulge in a manual). Too many gears, too quick up/downshifting, tries to be "smart." I may have only started driving in 2000, but I drove enough "older" transmissions to come to enjoy controlling the engine and transmission with my right foot. With newer ones, it seems like it is just a "go faster or slower" pedal and the engine/transmission does its own thing.

Toyota Corollas jumped the shark between the 2002 and 2003 model years. I really enjoyed my automatic, but not my sister's (what really annoyed me was that it would downshift if you even just tapped the brake going downhill). The one I liked the most was probably my dad's 1998 F-150 (4.6 V-8 I think)... fun to drive by automatic truck standards, it always behaved exactly like I wanted it to and had plenty of power to not futz around.

[scionkid]

As I said in the said in the previous post, small engines need multiple gears to keep them in a narrow operating range. If I'm going to drive an auto, the best way is to forget controlling it and see how it handles itself.

And regarding downshifting too quickly, I'd rather have it so do that than too late. I once rented a Ford 500 with a 6 speed automatic that was programmed to game the epa mileage test. I don't have a problem with upshifting quickly. But when I needed power, it wouldn't down shift until the loud pedal was firewalled. Then it would skip 3 gears at a time. All or nothing driving style was annoying.

[potownrob]

once i got used to mine, i found vw's 6 speed aisin auto to be good. i no longer really care for honda's 5 speed slushboxes anywmore