Getting used to a new vehicle's clutch

ClutchFork · Post by **ClutchFork** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:50 am

I have had three F100/150s with the big torquey 4.9L inline six. Drove that type truck with manual transmission from 1977 through 2011. So after 34 years of that I got a 4-banger Ranger with manual transmission. I'll tell ya, the transition to the smaller truck lower bottom end torque engine was lengthy. It seems like it took months (8-10 perhaps) to get used to launching the Ranger. I think it maybe is easier to launch a with more low end torque. With the lower power vehicle it seems you have to be much more delicate, or should I say the big powerful vehicle is more forgiving of sloppy clutch work? I don't know. Maybe it's just me.

theholycow · Post by **theholycow** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:23 am

I had a hell of a time getting used to a 2008 VW Rabbit's clutch and engine. That's what prompted me to join up here. Driving that car, I felt like I had never driven stick before. I wasn't heavily experienced but I did have some good and some not so good experience in the past. The clutch was numb, way too light, engaged too high, and engaged somewhat suddenly. The throttle was laggy and the accelerator pedal was bottom-hinged. I was great at fine control of domestic-style floating accelerator pedals, but the toe-on-the-edge technique doesn't work with bottom-hinged pedals, gotta plant the whole foot on the whole pedal (a habit which I have kept even though that car is gone).

When I bought a 1994 S10 as a transmission donor for my 1980 Lesabre, I drove it home and it was so much easier than that VW ever was. It just worked like a clutch should. When I got the project done the Buick's clutch ended up being pretty heavy, which works well for me. The Buick drives great and there was no learning curve, it just worked like a clutch should.

Just got a 2003 Sunfire for my wife. Its clutch is slightly weird but I like it. It's got kind of a cam feel, you push on it and it gets slightly heavier after 30-40% then it suddenly lightens up, like it's breaking open. On the way up you can feel it and it tells you exactly where you are in the pedal's travel, which would be great for a new manual driver. The IAC is up in your face, you can really tell when it goes into action and it has a lot of range, so it's like having automatic throttle, great for no-gas launching. It is a different experience to drive but I like it.

ClutchFork · Post by **ClutchFork** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:07 am

Interesting. I'll note that my son (Clutchdisc) started leaning on my Ranger. He bought the S10 before he was ready to drive a stick and continued to learn on the S10. It was easier for him, partly because 1st gear is about 8 percent deeper on the S10 and partly because the clutch was easier to engage on the S10 I think because the pedal movement was different.

Rope-Pusher · Post by **Rope-Pusher** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:59 am

Different clutch release systems will have different clutch pedal curves. The OEM goal is to have a drop-off in the pedal force, where the peak force is not at the fully-released position. The gap between the apply and release lines is due to hysteresis. Usually, people prefer the slick feeling of a low-hysteresis system. Adding return or over-center springs to the clutch pedal is a way of shaping the pedal curve, but it is also sensitive to the design of the clutch itself.

ClutchFork · Post by **ClutchFork** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:20 am

Awesome graphs, RopePusher! My new clutch and hydraulics is all Sachs except for a Power Torque slave.

Rope-Pusher · Post by **Rope-Pusher** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:25 pm

InlinePaul wrote:Awesome graphs, RopePusher! My new clutch and hydraulics is all Sachs except for a Power Torque slave.

Your "Sox" clutch doesn't necessarily have a "flat" curve - they make all kinds and some have quite a nice "Belly" in their pedal curves.

F U want to learn more about clutch systems:
http://deviantmethods.com/bigmoose/pape ... lutch1.pdf

ClutchFork · Post by **ClutchFork** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:37 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:
InlinePaul wrote:Awesome graphs, RopePusher! My new clutch and hydraulics is all Sachs except for a Power Torque slave.
Your "Sox" clutch doesn't necessarily have a "flat" curve - they make all kinds and some have quite a nice "Belly" in their pedal curves.

F U want to learn more about clutch systems:
http://deviantmethods.com/bigmoose/pape ... lutch1.pdf

My pedal has a nice feel. Ooooh, that booklet in your link is sure wonderful, have to print it out and study it. Wonderful stuff! Thanks!

Rope-Pusher · Post by **Rope-Pusher** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:55 pm

InlinePaul wrote:
Rope-Pusher wrote:
InlinePaul wrote:Awesome graphs, RopePusher! My new clutch and hydraulics is all Sachs except for a Power Torque slave.
Your "Sox" clutch doesn't necessarily have a "flat" curve - they make all kinds and some have quite a nice "Belly" in their pedal curves.

F U want to learn more about clutch systems:
http://deviantmethods.com/bigmoose/pape ... lutch1.pdf
My pedal has a nice feel. Ooooh, that booklet in your link is sure wonderful, have to print it out and study it. Wonderful stuff! Thanks!

Many people are more familiar with this quote of Luk about clutches:

74 "He has given us the privilege,since we have been rescued from our enemies’ clutches,...."

tankinbeans · Post by **tankinbeans** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:00 pm

his bovineness wrote: something about VWs and stew meat...

Werd. The more I drive my friend's Jetta, the less I like it. Sometimes it feels like I'm walking through gravel because the pedal just seems like it vibrates. It is also too light, and it's difficult to modulate the petrol and clutch.

I like Clifford's much better. His also feels a lot better than the clutch in my Banshee did.

ClutchFork · Post by **ClutchFork** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:58 pm

tankinbeans wrote:the pedal just .... It is also too light,

Yes, now I remember, the Ranger clutch was much lighter than the F150. I think that was a big part of it. I was used to a stiffer feeling clutch in the F150.

EDIT: Let me add that the clutch pedal seems smaller on the Ranger and the space where your foot goes when the pedal is depressed is tighter, so you kind of have to keep the pedal more to your toes than the ball of your foot or you will feel like it is not all the way down. Just a fact with a small vehicle I guess.

ClutchFork · Post by **ClutchFork** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:58 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote: F U want to learn more about clutch systems:
http://deviantmethods.com/bigmoose/pape ... lutch1.pdf

By the way, I read through this and was amazed at how much I did not know. I always thought the big springs around the hub were to smooth the engagement, and I think I have felt them bounce at times. They do cushion the engagement, but their purpose is to prevent gear rattle from engine harmonics. Then I didn't realize the spring plates under the friction material was to lengthen the engagement time to help bring the tranny speed and engine speed closer so as to put less strain on the syncros.

Then my self adjusting pressure plate is not just to keep pedal pressure from increasing over time as the disk wears, but also it helps reduce wear on tranny parts by keeping the clearances closer.

Thanks again--Double Thanks! Keep posting the fascinating and useful information.

Squint · Post by **Squint** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:31 pm

InlinePaul wrote:Thanks again--Double Thanks! Keep posting the fascinating and useful information.

The first one from RP is easy. Next time, he's going to make you work to decipher it. Just a friendly warning

tankinbeans · Post by **tankinbeans** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:17 pm

Squint wrote:
InlinePaul wrote:Thanks again--Double Thanks! Keep posting the fascinating and useful information.
The first one from RP is easy. Next time, he's going to make you work to decipher it. Just a friendly warning

It'll likely include something about female sheep.

Rope-Pusher · Post by **Rope-Pusher** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:27 pm

tankinbeans wrote:
Squint wrote:
InlinePaul wrote:Thanks again--Double Thanks! Keep posting the fascinating and useful information.
The first one from RP is easy. Next time, he's going to make you work to decipher it. Just a friendly warning
It'll likely include something about female sheep.

Doan chew bed on it!

ashowofhands · Post by **ashowofhands** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:03 pm

I do a few no-gas starts and 1-2 shifts in the parking lot/driveway/whatever when getting oriented with a new car. By the time I'm on the actual road I have a relatively good feel for the vehicle.

The clutch in my 2008 Outback was in much better shape than the one in my previous one (2003), engaged much lower, more smoothly and more quickly, and doesn't have that infamous old Subaru clutch judder/chatter problem. My first time driving it was also after about a month of not driving stick at all. It took me a while to get used to, but no-gassing my launches at first kept me from stalling out excessively (or really, ever, except for a couple times when I had the radio on loud enough taht I couldn't hear the engine). It took me a couple weeks to fully get used to the "new" feel. I found the stupid by-wire throttle was a much more difficult adjustment than the new clutch.

StandardShift.com

Getting used to a new vehicle's clutch

Getting used to a new vehicle's clutch

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