Does a manual car feel different (clutch/shifter)as it ages?

[mikebai1990]

I'm currently driving a 2010 Mazda3, and it feels great. However, because it's the my first manual, I don't have much to compare to. The only other car I've tested driven is a 2004 Mazda3 (~70K miles), which felt more or less similar, except the shifter felt a little less direct. It was within expectations.

The other day I had a chance to drive a 2006 Honda Civic stick shift, 75K miles. It's one of those cars that are rented out to people (relayrides for those who know it) by the hour/day, I do not know for how long, I don't know the maintenance history, I do not know how much it is abused. I did a quick drive for 5-10 minutes and I was ABSOLUTELY appalled at the horrible feel of the shifter and more importantly the clutch pedal. The shifter felt very loose and clunky compared to my 2010 Mazda which is springy and quiet. It didn't feel well defined, and almost felt like I was on an arcade race car. The clutch pedal was just.. It had probably only had 4 inches of total pedal travel, and it almost felt like the brake pedal in terms of feel. I actually had to look down to make sure I wasn't on the wrong pedal. It had more and more resistance as I stepped the pedal to the floor, and felt like a simple spring that got harder and harder to press as the pedal traveled farther. I can't explain it, it felt like total crap. If I owned a car like that, I would actually go for a comparable automatic, it was that bad. If anybody can explain this strange phenomenon I'd love to be enlightened. It's 7 years old, only 75K miles, I don't think it should feel like that. Is the clutch on it's way out? Was it potentially abused, and does abuse change the pedal feel?

So my overall questions is this: Does a stick shift car feel progressively different in terms of clutch pedal and shifter feel as time goes on? In other words, what differences do I expect as my Mazda ages? Will my clutch pedal or shifter one day feel like the one on this Civic I drove?

[watkins]

Every car feels different purely by nature of its design. Saabs - especially the performance or sportier variants - have moderate to heavy clutches (my preference). VWs tend to have incredibly light clutches. Most econoboxes have nearly effortless clutches that I find appalling. The trend these days is moving towards lighter clutches. Though I havent driven too many newer cars aside from what I deal with at work, I can say that the clutch in a manual Challenger or Ram 2500/3500 feels pretty solid, whereas a Caliber/Compass/Patriot has an artificially springy yet very light clutch.

The clutch, clutch linkage or hydraulic lines, shifter linkage and/or bushings, transmission and engine mounts, etc all change as a vehicle ages. As parts wear, there is more slop in the system which can make for harder shifts or a feeling of trying to shift in a pool of pudding. Depending on the design of the vehicle, the way parts wear, and general upkeep, the impact on shift feel can very greatly from car to car. My car, for example, has lived an abusive life. Its pretty obvious in the way the engine and transmission move around in their mounts. Shift feel can be pretty sloppy at times. Im too lazy to get replacement mounts.

Oh, and the newer Civics have awful clutches right from the factory. They fall in that econobox garbage clutch design category.

[potownrob]

I like the slight stiffness of my clutch. That said, I'm still getting used to it and/or my car is just old. So drunk ATM

[watkins]

So drunk ATM

Ive never met an ATM I couldnt out-drink.

[AHTOXA]

So drunk ATM

Ive never met an ATM I couldnt out-drink.

Acutely Troublesome Monkey?

[watkins]

Id say that sounds like you, but I know you can out-drink me.

[mikebai1990]

Fair enough. Yea I think I understand the difference between a heavy and light clutch--I was in a Mazda showroom and sat in the Mazdaspeed3, and that clutch required some serious effort. But what was strange about the Civic clutch was that it doesn't have the "decreased" springiness in the beginning and end of pedal travel and "increased" springiness in the middle of the pedal travel and which coincides with the friction point. The friction point on the Civic seemed to be somewhere in the middle of pedal travel, but all I had was "increased" springiness towards the end. If this is what all Civics feel like, I'm glad I got a Mazda 3. I'm definitely going to find a chance to test drive some other cars to get a good feel for the variation within a model and across car models.

Watkins, I'm in the somerville area, so we're (kinda) neighbors!

[Shadow]

So my overall questions is this: Does a stick shift car feel progressively different in terms of clutch pedal and shifter feel as time goes on? In other words, what differences do I expect as my Mazda ages? Will my clutch pedal or shifter one day feel like the one on this Civic I drove?

I think most manual transmission vehicles will feel a little bit different as the car ages and the mileage increases. But in most cases, the change in feel is so gradual that you're not likely to really notice it if you've been driving the car the whole time. So if your shifter becomes "sloppy" or the clutch take-up changes due to wear, it's not like it will happen all at once. Think about it this way--if you were to drive your car when it is brand new and then never drive it again until it is, say, 10 years old with 200,000 miles on it, I'm quite sure it wouldn't feel the same as it did when it was brand new. Of course you'd probably have a hard time remembering how it felt 10 years ago ...but I think you get the point. The same thing can be said about the suspension of the car as well. The car's handling will most likely get a bit sloppier as the car ages, simply because things tend to wear. Of course maintenance is the key here...and its up to you as the owner/driver of a car to keep it feeling as crisp as it did when it was new. I remember a car I used to own that the shifter started to feel really sloppy after a few years. I replaced the shifter bushings and it made the shifter feel like brand new again. So don't despair....if you happen to notice your own car beginning to get a sloppy feeling, it's just a matter of determining the cause and correcting it. You don't have to live with a "sloppy" feeling car.

[bk7794]

Fair enough. Yea I think I understand the difference between a heavy and light clutch--I was in a Mazda showroom and sat in the Mazdaspeed3, and that clutch required some serious effort. But what was strange about the Civic clutch was that it doesn't have the "decreased" springiness in the beginning and end of pedal travel and "increased" springiness in the middle of the pedal travel and which coincides with the friction point. The friction point on the Civic seemed to be somewhere in the middle of pedal travel, but all I had was "increased" springiness towards the end. If this is what all Civics feel like, I'm glad I got a Mazda 3. I'm definitely going to find a chance to test drive some other cars to get a good feel for the variation within a model and across car models.

Watkins, I'm in the somerville area, so we're (kinda) neighbors!

I know that my Civic is kind of like that. The stride (if you will) or the clutch pedal travel is bigger then the Cruze Eco that I sat in at the Big E..

But as for the vehicle aging I could never tell you what a new manual transmission feels like..and my car with 292k on it still feels quite nice to drive. Occasionally I need to double clutch to get into second..but those times are few and far between. Also yes, as your car gets older the shifter will be more wobbly and less springy. You can replace the springs but I don't really find too much of an issue with mine. Mine also is not a hydraulic transmission linkage, it is cable. So there is a complete difference in feel for me.

I feel like a worn out manual car can be more comfortable to ride in then a car with a worn auto..especially at low speeds.

As for your rental Civic I wouldn't be surprised if it was abused..but I can't speak for them. I really did not like the base models of the 2006-2011 generation. The stick was ugly and they looked goofy. The SI is another story though, that looks better.

[ManualShifterMz3s]

So my overall questions is this: Does a stick shift car feel progressively different in terms of clutch pedal and shifter feel as time goes on? In other words, what differences do I expect as my Mazda ages? Will my clutch pedal or shifter one day feel like the one on this Civic I drove?

I think most manual transmission vehicles will feel a little bit different as the car ages and the mileage increases. But in most cases, the change in feel is so gradual that you're not likely to really notice it if you've been driving the car the whole time. So if your shifter becomes "sloppy" or the clutch take-up changes due to wear, it's not like it will happen all at once. Think about it this way--if you were to drive your car when it is brand new and then never drive it again until it is, say, 10 years old with 200,000 miles on it, I'm quite sure it wouldn't feel the same as it did when it was brand new. Of course you'd probably have a hard time remembering how it felt 10 years ago ...but I think you get the point. The same thing can be said about the suspension of the car as well. The car's handling will most likely get a bit sloppier as the car ages, simply because things tend to wear. Of course maintenance is the key here...and its up to you as the owner/driver of a car to keep it feeling as crisp as it did when it was new. I remember a car I used to own that the shifter started to feel really sloppy after a few years. I replaced the shifter bushings and it made the shifter feel like brand new again. So don't despair....if you happen to notice your own car beginning to get a sloppy feeling, it's just a matter of determining the cause and correcting it. You don't have to live with a "sloppy" feeling car.

TOTALLY AGREE... and if it is any additional help, I have a 2004 Mazda3, 2.3 Stick Shift.

I STILL enjoy driving this car... up to this morning, when I last drove it (sitting in the parking lot since) on the open road, I was just thinking of how enjoyable the drive & the smooth shifts were.

Care and maintain it... you'll have plenty years of enjoyment.

[DKaz]

Where do you live where there is a true manual transmission vehicle in a car sharing program?? Our two programs up here, Zipcar and Modo, only have automatics in their fleet. I wanted to start my own car sharing company for enthusiasts.

[Squint]

Where do you live where there is a true manual transmission vehicle in a car sharing program?? Our two programs up here, Zipcar and Modo, only have automatics in their fleet. I wanted to start my own car sharing company for enthusiasts.

Seriously. I'd be down with that. Except that we're are a long distance apart...

[mikebai1990]

Where do you live where there is a true manual transmission vehicle in a car sharing program?? Our two programs up here, Zipcar and Modo, only have automatics in their fleet. I wanted to start my own car sharing company for enthusiasts.

The site is called relayrides.com. It doesn't cater to manual transmissions specifically, but I live in the Boston area and I found 2-3 in my area that I could rent.

[Rope-Pusher]

As the clutch disk friction material wears, the clutch cover must position the pressure plate closer to the flywheel to compensate for the disk thickness reduction. This, unless you have a self-adjusting clutch cover assembly, will result in a geometry change in the diaphragm spring that will raise the pedal effort required to release the clutch. It will also likely change the shape of the clutch pedal force vs travel curve. Additionally, the increase in operating force will increase the deflections in the clutch release system and reduce the pedal reserve, so that the release and engagement points move closer to the clutch downstop position. A self-adjusting clutch cover maintains a more constant pedal feel during the life of the clutch.