Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

ClutchFork wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:58 am
Rope-Pusher wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:23 pm
IMBoring25 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:41 pm The difference is that the performance/efficiency tradeoff for saving the cost, weight, and complexity of a multispeed transmission with an ICE is crippling (so much so that the Model T was a two-speed), while the performance/efficiency benefit of adding the cost, weight, and complexity of a multispeed transmission to an electric drive system is comparatively small.
This company thinks they can generate savings on right-sizing the electric motor and batteries with their 2-Speed trans for electric vehicles.

In the article there is a link to an animation that shows shifts being accomplished under load.

https://www.sae.org/news/2021/02/inmoti ... efficiency
I would think that a CVT would be the way to go with an electric vehicle no?
I don't think they're trying to keep the electric motor running in its "Sweet Spot", since it has a fairly broad operating range, but more to offer a low range for starting up a grade with a heavy load and then a cruising range for high-speed driving while avoiding relatively high motor rpms.
Last edited by Rope-Pusher on Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by IMBoring25 »

A CVT is used to deal with a power source with a narrow powerband and is best used in low-torque applications. Both of those things are the opposite of what you get with an electric motor.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by ClutchFork »

I see, but this image suggests there is some limitation on power band, but certainly a broad power band:
Image
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theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

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Jeep Magneto
The Jeep Wrangler Magneto concept is a fully capable BEV that is stealthy, quiet, quick and an unmistakable rock-climbing force. Jeep brand engineers and designers have created a zero-emission vehicle with Jeep 4x4 capability that provides new levels of efficiency, environmental responsibility, and performance on- and off-road.

Based on a two-door 2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, the Jeep Magneto uses a custom-built axial flux electric motor that operates up to 6,000 rpm. The e-motor is connected to a six-speed manual transmission, creating a unique manual-electric powertrain with a clutch that operates as it would with an internal combustion engine. In quick-shift scenarios, the e-motor engages regen upon clutch engagement to prevent rev-hang.

Comparable to the 3.6-liter Pentastar V-6, the compact e-motor is tuned to deliver up to 273 lb.-ft. of torque and 285 horsepower. Intentional calibrations developed during testing help the Magneto’s powertrain emulate the driving experience of the V-6, matching not only torque but also horsepower. During moderate driving, the performance difference between the V-6 and the Magneto’s unique manual-electric powertrain is negligible except for near-silent operation.

When greater acceleration is needed, the e-motor delivers all 273 lb.-ft. of torque without the need to build up revolutions per minute. The Magneto concept runs 0-60 mph in 6.8 seconds.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by ClutchFork »

Rope-Pusher wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:56 pm Jeep Magneto
The Jeep Wrangler Magneto concept is a fully capable BEV that is stealthy, quiet, quick and an unmistakable rock-climbing force. Jeep brand engineers and designers have created a zero-emission vehicle with Jeep 4x4 capability that provides new levels of efficiency, environmental responsibility, and performance on- and off-road.

Based on a two-door 2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, the Jeep Magneto uses a custom-built axial flux electric motor that operates up to 6,000 rpm. The e-motor is connected to a six-speed manual transmission, creating a unique manual-electric powertrain with a clutch that operates as it would with an internal combustion engine. In quick-shift scenarios, the e-motor engages regen upon clutch engagement to prevent rev-hang.

Comparable to the 3.6-liter Pentastar V-6, the compact e-motor is tuned to deliver up to 273 lb.-ft. of torque and 285 horsepower. Intentional calibrations developed during testing help the Magneto’s powertrain emulate the driving experience of the V-6, matching not only torque but also horsepower. During moderate driving, the performance difference between the V-6 and the Magneto’s unique manual-electric powertrain is negligible except for near-silent operation.

When greater acceleration is needed, the e-motor delivers all 273 lb.-ft. of torque without the need to build up revolutions per minute. The Magneto concept runs 0-60 mph in 6.8 seconds.
The manual transmission certainly makes this vehicle more attractive, but I have to think clutching it is a whole different experience, if there even is a manual clutch pedal. The next problem for this telemission (emits at the DTE plant instead of under the back bumper) vehicle is how long will it operate on a charge? Those horse and torque numbers are going to drop as one works their way through a charge. And then after having it a few years and the batteries are getting old, those numbers will be even lower.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by IMBoring25 »

It sounds like they made an effort to make it feel right, with the discussion of using regen [to drag the RPM down during shifts]. They probably would not take that as far as being able to make it buck with a mishandled clutch, and it would probably be impossible to stall it.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by ClutchFork »

IMBoring25 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:48 am It sounds like they made an effort to make it feel right, with the discussion of using regen [to drag the RPM down during shifts]. They probably would not take that as far as being able to make it buck with a mishandled clutch, and it would probably be impossible to stall it.
Also would it inherently have the shut off at a spotlight feature? I mean, with clutches they could leave it running, but it seems an electric vehicle is perfect for the feature to shut off when not moving.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by watkins »

ClutchFork wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:03 amThe manual transmission certainly makes this vehicle more attractive, but I have to think clutching it is a whole different experience, if there even is a manual clutch pedal.
The manual in the JL is absolutely garbage already. It is hands down the worst clutch experience I've ever had. If anything, going electric might improve matters.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

watkins wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:54 pm
ClutchFork wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:03 amThe manual transmission certainly makes this vehicle more attractive, but I have to think clutching it is a whole different experience, if there even is a manual clutch pedal.
The manual in the JL is absolutely garbage already. It is hands down the worst clutch experience I've ever had. If anything, going electric might improve matters.
You kinda want a clutch so you can disconnect the trans from the motor and shift it while it's not transmissing any torque, like when you shift your ICE-engined Amish vehicle. Sure, you can play with the accelerator and perform your shifts when the trans is unloaded without using the clutch pedal, but it requires more concentration than to just use that left pedal.

I don't think you would use the clutch to drive away from a stop. You would just be sitting there with the trans shifted to 1st and your foot on the brake. When the light turns green you would just move your foot from the brake pedal to the accelerator pedal and drive off. When you get to a point where you want to shift to 2nd, just let off the accelerator pedal, depress the clutch pedal to the downstop, move the shifter to shift the trans into 2nd gear and then let the clutch pedal come back up and get back into the accelerator. If they've brought the motor rpm to the correct rpm for driving in 2nd gear at that vehicle speed (Rev-matched for you). then you maybe just get back into the accelerator and continue to accelerate in 2nd until you want to shift to 3rd.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by watkins »

The 4XE tech is really cool stuff. I'm surprised to see Jeep going in this direction too, if only in concept form.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

watkins wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:56 am The 4XE tech is really cool stuff. I'm surprised to see Jeep going in this direction too, if only in concept form.
They said it would have a range of ~ 23 miles on battery power before it required recharging / engine start-up.

That's driving on public roads. I imagine your mileage may vary if you actually decided to go off-road while running on battery power. Throw in some hills and I'm sure it would be down to single-digit range.

.....And then I read an announcement that they would be putting charging stations at trailheads.
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Yanno, we really are a fringe element of society, aren't we?

It seems you have the non-believers clamoring for not just vehicles that shift themselves, but for vehicles that drive themselves.

Tesla announced recently an update to their AutoPilot software that will even make your Tesla brake-check other drivers, if that's what you want. GM plans to offer Super Cruise retrofits into Chevy Cruze vehicles. Ford Blue Cruise will be available in every vehicle them manufacture - as long as it's painted Blue (Shades of Henry the 1st's "Any color you want, as long as it's black").

I still feel that a lot of the new trends, beyond slushbox transmissions, are something that a lot of people talk about, but not so many put their money where their mouth is and actually go out and purchase. Ford BlueCruise is going to be offered as a 3-year subscription for $600, but that is on top of spending thousands of $$$$$ for the prerequisite option packages necessary to support the software.

Won't be long now and we'll all feel like Mad Max, driving something that nobody else can get one of, and loving it!
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Two passengers were killed in a crash of a Tesla Model S on Saturday in which there was no one sitting in the driver's seat, according to police.

The crash in the Houston suburb of Spring, Texas, killed a person in the front passenger seat and one in the rear seat of the car, according to Constable Mark Herman, the head of the Harris County police precinct that responded to the crash.
"I can tell you our investigators are certain no one was in the driver's seat at the time of the crash," he told CNN Monday.

But later Monday, Tesla CEO Elon Musk tweeted that the "Autopilot" feature available on this car was not engaged, based upon "data logs recovered so far." He did not give details about what the data logs did in fact show, or if they ran up through the moment of the accident.
He also said an even more advanced self-driving feature known as Full Self-Driving capability, or FSD, that is available on a limited number of Tesla cars, had not been purchased with this vehicle.
"Moreover, standard Autopilot would require lane lines to turn on, which this street did not have," Musk said in his tweet.

If neither passenger was driving the vehicle, and the vehicle was NOT driving itself, then the accident was nobody's fault, right?

If it had occurred in "The Great State of Michigan", repairs would have been covered by "No-Fault Insurance".
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

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NEW CIVIC HAS MORE POWER & BETTER HANDLING (and a suckier transmission!)
On Monday we speculated this design rendering was the interior for the all-new Civic. Turns out we were right. It’s highlighted by a long, thin air vent that stretches across the entire dash and a high-mounted center screen, which is available in 7- or 9-inches. Styling wise, the Civic now looks a lot more like the Accord, which we think is highlighted by a long hood and fast-back-like rear as well as the nose element that flows down into the Honda badge in the grille. It’s body-color on the Civic, rather than chrome, but you can see the similarity. More than looks, Honda says it also increased body rigidity, which will improve ride, handling and NVH. Power comes in the form of two 4-cylinder engines; the standard naturally aspirated 2.0L, which makes 158 horsepower or a 180 horsepower 1.5L turbo. Both are mated exclusively to a CVT. The Civic sedan will continue to be made in Canada and, for the first time, the Civic Hatchback will be made in the U.S.

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-autom ... y-features
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Re: Manuals you'll miss in 2019...

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Yanno, if you follow that link and look up the specs on the Civic, you'll see that that little porker has snuck over the 3000 lb mark on us.
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