Winter driving tips/techniques

[Prodigal Son]

Stop. Rest the shifter. Go to 1st. Launch. Easy-peasy.

Or, as you stop, change to neutral, keep the clutch in and rest the shifter against first. Just before you come to a stop, the shifter will fall into first. Stop. Launch. Also easy-peasy, and perhaps marginally quicker, for those occasions where you have the intersection to yourself.

[mikebai1990]

Prodigal, when you say "fall" into first gear, does it fall in because of the sudden stopping motion, or does the shifter actually want to slip into first gear?

[Prodigal Son]

Prodigal, when you say "fall" into first gear, does it fall in because of the sudden stopping motion, or does the shifter actually want to slip into first gear?

At a certain point, (as far as I understand the underlying mechanism) the synchos line up and the resistance vanishes.

[Hatchman]

Stop. Rest the shifter. Go to 1st. Launch. Easy-peasy.

Or, as you stop, change to neutral, keep the clutch in and rest the shifter against first. Just before you come to a stop, the shifter will fall into first. Stop. Launch. Also easy-peasy, and perhaps marginally quicker, for those occasions where you have the intersection to yourself.

Yup, that's what I meant actually. It's really not that inconvenient to come to a full stop. Sheesh.

[Daywalker]

Even though I haven't been around for a while I think I should add this in.

Be cautious of bridges, they will freeze quicker. Those elevated highway interchange ramps are really bad at it. They are curvy, thin, and high in the air.

[Hatchman]

Even though I haven't been around for a while I think I should add this in.

Be cautious of bridges, they will freeze quicker. Those elevated highway interchange ramps are really bad at it. They are curvy, thin, and high in the air.

+2 (one for each point made).

*BTW, I like your car.

[Prodigal Son]

Even though I haven't been around for a while I think I should add this in.

Be cautious of bridges, they will freeze quicker. Those elevated highway interchange ramps are really bad at it. They are curvy, thin, and high in the air.

+1

Other places to be cautious of:

* Areas in shade. They may be frozen when the unshaded road in not.
* The area in front of a stop light or stop sign. People spinning their tires to start on snowy pavement can polish these areas to glare ice.
* Black areas. In winter, bare pavement is generally light gray. Black areas are likely black ice.
* Bends, particularly on rural roads that have not been plowed. The straight sections may have two tracks of bare pavement with snow on either side, but in the corners, the tracks break up and there may be granulated snow right across the road.
* Valleys and hillsides. Sunshine can melt snow above the road, causing to run across the road where it may freeze.

Any others?

[jomotopia]

what about hills in winter? i don't have much winter driving experience but i'm thinking that if you're approaching a slippery uphill slope, your inclination will be to slow down, but i'm thinking maybe you should speed up so you have enough momentum to make it up the hill, whereas if you go to slow you might start slipping backwards. any thoughts?

[Prodigal Son]

The key thing on a hill it to avoid breaking traction. The conseqences of spinning a tire on snow and ice are different from spinning it on asphalt. Spinning a tire on asphalt may increase traction by heating the tire, but spinning a tire on hard packed snow or ice drastically reduces traction by melting the snow/ice, forming a layer of water between the snow/ice and the tire, at which point the traction drops to zero. I have seen people charge hills and get stuck half way up with tires madly spinning. With tires spinning, they actually begin to slide backwards down the hill.

So, momentum might work if you have enough momentum to get right over the hill, but chrarging a hill generally involves sending too much torque to the road and results in breaking traction, spinning tires, and sliding backwards. Additionally, of course, high speed is generally contrindicated in slippery conditions.

A better approach is usually to take the hill at the slowest speed possible in the highest gear available. The combination of low engine speed and high gear reduces torque to the minimum and therefore reduces the chance of breaking traction. For the most part, drivers who take this approach drive steadily and sedately past those who charge the hill.

For a hill that is very long and slippery, higher initial speed might help, but you would definitely want to get into low-torque mode on the hill itself to avoid breaking traction. To do this, though, you would have to play the throttle carefully, so that you did not introduce either acceleration or engine braking on the hill. Once you break traction on a hill it is usually impossible to get it back.

BTW, this is definitely an area in which AWD is a big help, since it distributes the torque over four wheels instead of two.

[mikebai1990]

Using a higher gear makes a lot of sense.

If that is the case, why is suggested by some car manuals that using a lower gear (mainly for slushies) will help you in cases where there is low traction?

With your explanation, it would only make sense that the least amount of torque will provide the most stable traction, and I agree with that.

[Prodigal Son]

If that is the case, why is suggested by some car manuals that using a lower gear (mainly for slushies) will help you in cases where there is low traction?

I haven't seen that myself, so I couldn't say. Perhaps if you could find an example we could examine it in context.

I do know that the word traction is often misused to mean the capacity to accelerate (so, essentailly as a synonym for torque). In reality, torque works in opposition to traction to move a vehicle. Adding more torque therefore does not add traction, though it may allow you to take advantage of more of the available traction, which is, I guess, what leads to the misuse of the term.

In summer, on dry pavement, with good tires, you generally have more traction than you have torque. In winter on slippery pavement you generally have less traction than you have torque. In winter, therefore, you have to take a completely different approach to managing the torque of your vehicle.

[Hatchman]

what about hills in winter? i don't have much winter driving experience but i'm thinking that if you're approaching a slippery uphill slope, your inclination will be to slow down, but i'm thinking maybe you should speed up so you have enough momentum to make it up the hill, whereas if you go to slow you might start slipping backwards. any thoughts?

I'd say a steady speed up the hill would be best, trying to avoid a full stop and the required re-start. If traffic is heavy, 2nd gear should give enough flexibility to allow a slowdown and speed-up as needed. If the hill is all yours, you can go up a bit faster, and probably in 3rd, but you need to be ready for "surprizes" such as someone pulling out in front of you. Slow but steady is key.

[Hatchman]

Saw my first ice crystals of the season. They were on every bridge this morning. Man we have a lot of bridges and overpasses around here. Anyway the trick is to travel at a steady speed over these icy patches = avoid hard acceleration and hard braking = leave lots of room in front of you. Ease off the accelerator for bends and for traffic slowing down up ahead.

I'm great at spotting ice.

[vios]

Hi,

I'm new here and accidentally discovered this site. I've been driving manuals for years but never realized how much I didn't know until I read the FAQ and the forum. Excellent, excellent site!

Using a higher gear makes a lot of sense.

If that is the case, why is suggested by some car manuals that using a lower gear (mainly for slushies) will help you in cases where there is low traction?

I guess this would be conditions where torque just exceeds traction whatever gear you're in, in which case, it would be better to put the car in low gear. Even though 5th gear produces less torque than 1st gear, that small amount of torque may still be enough to break traction. In this case, you worry more on wheel spin speed change rather than torque, so you put it in lower gear to take advantage of the low rate of wheel spin as well as lower rate of wheel spin change (lower angular velocity and angular acceleration).

Tony

[Hatchman]

Hi,

I'm new here and accidentally discovered this site. I've been driving manuals for years but never realized how much I didn't know until I read the FAQ and the forum. Excellent, excellent site!

Using a higher gear makes a lot of sense.

If that is the case, why is suggested by some car manuals that using a lower gear (mainly for slushies) will help you in cases where there is low traction?

I guess this would be conditions where torque just exceeds traction whatever gear you're in, in which case, it would be better to put the car in low gear. Even though 5th gear produces less torque than 1st gear, that small amount of torque may still be enough to break traction. In this case, you worry more on wheel spin speed change rather than torque, so you put it in lower gear to take advantage of the low rate of wheel spin as well as lower rate of wheel spin change (lower angular velocity and angular acceleration).

Tony

Hey vios, welcome

Glad you find the site useful. So do I, believe me.

Judging by your post, it seems you'll have a lot of good stuff to contribute.

Cheers.