Winter Driving

Read the FAQ and still not sure about something? Want to shift faster? Post here.
MidnightInGotham
Junior Standardshifter
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 6:52 pm
Cars: 2016 GTI

Winter Driving

Postby MidnightInGotham » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:55 am

Me being new to owning a 3 pedal car, this is my first winter driving experience with one. Something I've noticed is that when I am starting off in a slick spot, it's hard to feel if the clutch is engaged.

Here's what I mean, slowly bring the clutch pedal up while starting on the throttle, slow or pause with the clutch and normally I feel when the clutch engages and then get off it quickly. In a slick spot, I don't feel that and I've had a few times where I come off the clutch pedal and it's already engaged and others where I get a little buck.

Hopefully you guys can follow and relate. Any tips for a new winter driver in this regard?

Unrelated sidebar, but why not ask. If I'm approaching a roundabout and the person in front is delayed in going I may have taken the car out of gear but can now go, however I'm going about 9 mph. For some reason in my GTI, it doesn't like to go into 1st gear above 6 mph. I've had this situation a few times and I have tried putting it in 2nd and slipping the clutch (this lead to some lugging), I've tried a little force and gotten the car into 1st (decelerated a bit more by that point as well). What is the proper form in this situation?
2016 Volkswagen GTI Autobahn Performance Pack

User avatar
potownrob
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 7241
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:35 pm
Cars: '16 Golf; '07 Altima
Location: Dutchess County

Re: Winter Driving

Postby potownrob » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:21 am

MidnightInGotham wrote:Me being new to owning a 3 pedal car, this is my first winter driving experience with one. Something I've noticed is that when I am starting off in a slick spot, it's hard to feel if the clutch is engaged.

Here's what I mean, slowly bring the clutch pedal up while starting on the throttle, slow or pause with the clutch and normally I feel when the clutch engages and then get off it quickly. In a slick spot, I don't feel that and I've had a few times where I come off the clutch pedal and it's already engaged and others where I get a little buck.

Hopefully you guys can follow and relate. Any tips for a new winter driver in this regard?
one thing that comes to mind is that you shouldn't have to feel the clutch engage. It is better to learn how quickly to let out the clutch and how much gas to add at what point than to wait to feel the clutch engage, though being able to feel the clutch engaging can help. With winter driving, you want to be gentle about letting the clutch out and adding gas. This doesn't mean taking 10 seconds to let the clutch out or doing no-gas launches (though they are often possible). This means not engaging the drivetrain abruptly. Being in the highest gear feasible for a situation is good practice too. Starting in 2nd is possible, despite the GTI not being geared for starting in 2nd in general, but I wouldn't worry about that too much; you could start in 1st then shift quickly into 2nd. A silver lining of having limited traction is that there is less risk of harming your drivetrain by letting out the clutch too quick or adding a little too much gas. If you don't know if the clutch is fully engaged but you sense movement (even a little), try shifting into 2nd and seeing if you move - it could just be a traction problem and the higher gear should help with traction.

Unrelated sidebar, but why not ask. If I'm approaching a roundabout and the person in front is delayed in going I may have taken the car out of gear but can now go, however I'm going about 9 mph. For some reason in my GTI, it doesn't like to go into 1st gear above 6 mph. I've had this situation a few times and I have tried putting it in 2nd and slipping the clutch (this lead to some lugging), I've tried a little force and gotten the car into 1st (decelerated a bit more by that point as well). What is the proper form in this situation?
Teamwork (the forum member) should better be able to answer to this (and he has talked about this issue before), but as for the proper way to go into 1st while moving, it almost always involves adding gas before letting out the clutch in 1st. If you lug when shifting into 2nd, you might want to get on the gas a little once you're in 2nd (as in resting your foot on the gas pedal). Lugging is frustrating for new shifters, since it seems like a bad thing, but in many cases no harm is being done; just clutch in if you find the rpms dipping below idle.
FÜR DIE FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

For Pizza!!!!

IMBoring25
Moderator
Posts: 3283
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: OK, USA

Re: Winter Driving

Postby IMBoring25 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:04 am

For getting into first when moving at significant speed it is often necessary to double-clutch (apply throttle before putting the clutch IN, usually done with a subsequent release of the throttle before doing the clutch work and reapplying throttle as it's released). You don't have to brake in this scenario, so it's a pretty good one to start, but you should try it in a parking lot with lots of runoff room first.

Teamwork
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:49 pm
Cars: 2015 VW GTI

Re: Winter Driving

Postby Teamwork » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:56 am

MidnightInGotham wrote:Me being new to owning a 3 pedal car, this is my first winter driving experience with one. Something I've noticed is that when I am starting off in a slick spot, it's hard to feel if the clutch is engaged.

Here's what I mean, slowly bring the clutch pedal up while starting on the throttle, slow or pause with the clutch and normally I feel when the clutch engages and then get off it quickly. In a slick spot, I don't feel that and I've had a few times where I come off the clutch pedal and it's already engaged and others where I get a little buck.

Hopefully you guys can follow and relate. Any tips for a new winter driver in this regard?

Unrelated sidebar, but why not ask. If I'm approaching a roundabout and the person in front is delayed in going I may have taken the car out of gear but can now go, however I'm going about 9 mph. For some reason in my GTI, it doesn't like to go into 1st gear above 6 mph. I've had this situation a few times and I have tried putting it in 2nd and slipping the clutch (this lead to some lugging), I've tried a little force and gotten the car into 1st (decelerated a bit more by that point as well). What is the proper form in this situation?

Thanks Potown for referencing me and I always feel like when MIG posts that I can relate to his questions since we have the same car. I myself don't have a tremendous amount of snow + manual transmission experience because last winter was mild for LI. We had one bad stretch of 3 days of a snow storm and essentially everything else was 2 inches or under (and few and far between). I only feel like I've dealt with maybe 2 times last year getting caught out with actual inches on the ground. I would say that I was stay in the friction point maybe a second extra then usual and just be mindful with the amount of revs going through slipping. As long as I'm moving in the intended direction I'm attempting then I go about business as usual. I always felt like for the most part the engagement point on this car is extremely vague to begin with, not providing much feedback in what's actually going on.

As far the sidebar, this is a pretty common complaint with the ratios in this car and I'm pretty sure I've turned this question myself here and definitely seen it on the vortex. If you're in 8-10 mph range I would go back into 2nd > hell even at 7 MPH if you're mindful you can pull out of 2nd with minimal lugging but it requires finesse. I definitely wouldn't engage back into 1st gear past 8 MPH unless you're planning on double clutching and matching the revs or you're going to buck like a bronco if you're not careful. Depending highly on the variables of the traffic situation I've double clutched back into 1st but if it's casual/leisure (most the time it is) I will slip it back into 2nd though. In this given scenario though I try and avoid being inbetween in possible- whether that means predicting getting back into 2nd sooner or exaggerating the brake and going back into 1st quickly. I will/can engage 1st gear in this car at 4-5 mph no issues really. Once you start trying to get it into 1st past like 7 mph though it takes skill.

P.S. - Take this for what it's worth but I've seen extremely sketchy manual transmission advice written about the MKVII forums. I would never really dare ask a question there or follow some of these guys leads. Real suspicious information given out regularly.

Hope it helps-

MidnightInGotham
Junior Standardshifter
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 6:52 pm
Cars: 2016 GTI

Re: Winter Driving

Postby MidnightInGotham » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:35 pm

Teamwork wrote:
MidnightInGotham wrote:Me being new to owning a 3 pedal car, this is my first winter driving experience with one. Something I've noticed is that when I am starting off in a slick spot, it's hard to feel if the clutch is engaged.

Here's what I mean, slowly bring the clutch pedal up while starting on the throttle, slow or pause with the clutch and normally I feel when the clutch engages and then get off it quickly. In a slick spot, I don't feel that and I've had a few times where I come off the clutch pedal and it's already engaged and others where I get a little buck.

Hopefully you guys can follow and relate. Any tips for a new winter driver in this regard?

Unrelated sidebar, but why not ask. If I'm approaching a roundabout and the person in front is delayed in going I may have taken the car out of gear but can now go, however I'm going about 9 mph. For some reason in my GTI, it doesn't like to go into 1st gear above 6 mph. I've had this situation a few times and I have tried putting it in 2nd and slipping the clutch (this lead to some lugging), I've tried a little force and gotten the car into 1st (decelerated a bit more by that point as well). What is the proper form in this situation?

Thanks Potown for referencing me and I always feel like when MIG posts that I can relate to his questions since we have the same car. I myself don't have a tremendous amount of snow + manual transmission experience because last winter was mild for LI. We had one bad stretch of 3 days of a snow storm and essentially everything else was 2 inches or under (and few and far between). I only feel like I've dealt with maybe 2 times last year getting caught out with actual inches on the ground. I would say that I was stay in the friction point maybe a second extra then usual and just be mindful with the amount of revs going through slipping. As long as I'm moving in the intended direction I'm attempting then I go about business as usual. I always felt like for the most part the engagement point on this car is extremely vague to begin with, not providing much feedback in what's actually going on.

As far the sidebar, this is a pretty common complaint with the ratios in this car and I'm pretty sure I've turned this question myself here and definitely seen it on the vortex. If you're in 8-10 mph range I would go back into 2nd > hell even at 7 MPH if you're mindful you can pull out of 2nd with minimal lugging but it requires finesse. I definitely wouldn't engage back into 1st gear past 8 MPH unless you're planning on double clutching and matching the revs or you're going to buck like a bronco if you're not careful. Depending highly on the variables of the traffic situation I've double clutched back into 1st but if it's casual/leisure (most the time it is) I will slip it back into 2nd though. In this given scenario though I try and avoid being inbetween in possible- whether that means predicting getting back into 2nd sooner or exaggerating the brake and going back into 1st quickly. I will/can engage 1st gear in this car at 4-5 mph no issues really. Once you start trying to get it into 1st past like 7 mph though it takes skill.

P.S. - Take this for what it's worth but I've seen extremely sketchy manual transmission advice written about the MKVII forums. I would never really dare ask a question there or follow some of these guys leads. Real suspicious information given out regularly.

Hope it helps-


Absolutely helps, thank you! One thing I noticed today (below 0F this morning and high of 4F) even when the coolant temp was around 135 (for others reference, operates around 200) I noted that it was hard to get into gear. I had let the car warm for about 10 minutes or so. Is it harmful to apply more pressure getting into gear (stationary, not moving)? Or is this a tranny fluid viscosity situation?
2016 Volkswagen GTI Autobahn Performance Pack

MidnightInGotham
Junior Standardshifter
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 6:52 pm
Cars: 2016 GTI

Re: Winter Driving

Postby MidnightInGotham » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:37 pm

Also for reference to others I live in central Minnesota. We get plenty of cold and plenty of snow. Looking for another 8-12 inches this upcoming weekend.
2016 Volkswagen GTI Autobahn Performance Pack

User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15990
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Winter Driving

Postby theholycow » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:48 pm

As far as the difficulty shifting while cold, that's normal and nothing needs to be done about it (unless, of course, you dislike it enough to do something). A little extra time and/or pressure will get it into gear without harm. I suspect that most people never even notice or give it a second thought.
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3776
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6, 03 Century
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Winter Driving

Postby tankinbeans » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:53 pm

MidnightInGotham wrote:Also for reference to others I live in central Minnesota. We get plenty of cold and plenty of snow. Looking for another 8-12 inches this upcoming weekend.

I was dealing with that this morning in Apple Valley. I've never let the car sit that long unless I have freeze baby passengers. I noticed Freddie was extra herky jerky, as in ready to gallop with his 155 horsepressures, due to the high idle (designed in to make the warmup quicker). In the end your car is designed to deal with these temps and to paraphrase cow vis-a-vis extra force on the shitter, "you gotta do what you gotta do."
17 Mazda6
03 Century
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!

Teamwork
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:49 pm
Cars: 2015 VW GTI

Re: Winter Driving

Postby Teamwork » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:11 pm

MidnightInGotham wrote:Absolutely helps, thank you! One thing I noticed today (below 0F this morning and high of 4F) even when the coolant temp was around 135 (for others reference, operates around 200) I noted that it was hard to get into gear. I had let the car warm for about 10 minutes or so. Is it harmful to apply more pressure getting into gear (stationary, not moving)? Or is this a tranny fluid viscosity situation?

I just wrote a post in another thread in regards to this- not to a tee though. I have a 2015 so this is technically my 2nd winter with this vehicle and I've noticed off of cold starts (car sitting overnight, under 35 degrees) that for about 3-4 blocks it feels like I'm rowing the stick through gravel. Light resistances that never really lock me out of a gate but takes noticeably more effort to go through them. I'm not really concerned about it but might inquire about trying things out to remediate this a bit.

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 10567
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Winter Driving

Postby Rope-Pusher » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:08 am

Image
Seams tummy, if/when you wear winter-like boots, you loose some sensitivity of your foot to the load vs travel of the clutch pedal, so you may not be keyed-in to where the pedal is in the release curve by feel anymore. That's why DOG said it's OK to just dump the clutch and let your wheelspin smooth things out a bit.

Seams tummy, when you are idling in Neutral, the input shaft is spinning, and to shift into 1st to drive off from a standstill, the synchros need to STOP the rotation of the input shaft. This is difficult for them to do when the trans fluid is more viscous due to the cold temperatures.

You could wait extra long time - 3 seconds should do, for the input shaft to slow to Zero rpm as you hold the clutch pedal fully depressed. Else you can put more force into the shift into 1st, but multi-cone synchronizers are particularly sensitive to fluid viscosity increases.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

User avatar
Tups
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 2229
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 4:37 am
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele

Re: Winter Driving

Postby Tups » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:21 am

Considering that it's possible to launch pretty much any car on second gear, I would just forget shifting to first in such situation unless the car comes to a complete stop.
2007 Ford Focus ST225
1982 Ford Escort Mk3

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3776
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6, 03 Century
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Winter Driving

Postby tankinbeans » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:08 am

I just realized a Top Gear Top Tip today. Which is to say leave your car in first as long as possible coming from a dead stop; if it's rolling leave it and take advantage of the torque. Also, when plowing through street snow stick to 4th and under again taking advantage of the torque.
17 Mazda6
03 Century
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 10567
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Winter Driving

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:20 am

Image
Bust your classic car out of winter hibernation because the Drive Home II is coming through your town

… PROVIDED YOU LIVE IN THE NORTHEAST; AMERICA’S CAR MUSEUM FOLLOWS UP LAST YEAR’S HAUL WITH A 2,150-MILE BOSTON-DETROIT QUEST
A tentative schedule is as follows:

December 27 -- Boston
December 28 -- New York City and Jamestown, Rhode Island
December 29 -- New York City and Philadelphia
December 30 -- Washington, D.C.
December 31 -- Great Falls, Virginia, Lancaster, Pennsylvania and Allentown, Pennsylvania
January 1 -- Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh
January 2 -- Pittsburgh and Indianapolis
January 3 -- Indianapolis and Grand Rapids, Michigan
January 4 -- Grand Rapids, Michigan; Traverse City, Michigan
January 5 -- Traverse City, Lansing and Birmingham, Michigan
January 6 -- Troy, Michigan and Detroit

Image
Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/car-life/bu ... z4T6oisBhX
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3776
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6, 03 Century
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Winter Driving

Postby tankinbeans » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:32 am

Been dealing with the lazy ass private blow operators. This is what I had to maneuver through this morning.

Image

Image
17 Mazda6
03 Century
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 10567
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Winter Driving

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:41 am

I was the one out at 5:30am, waking the neighborhood with my snowblower....but I cleared the sidewalks of about 10 neighbors as well.

Hey, I thought of this great idea - What's the best way to clear snow off your vehicle?....Drive it down the freeway at 120 mph, right?

I simulated that with my 80 volt Lion leaf blower. It worked well, and no guy behind me showing me how to count to 1. This is my first winter with the leaf blower, but I hadn't thought of using it this way until this snowfall. It was like I was the first guy to slice bread....until later this morning I saw some guy with a gas blower blowing snow off his car. OK, so maybe I didn't invent the process, but it works great on walkways with light dustings too. It's a lot quieter and lighter than lugging around a gas-powered blower and no cord to drag around either.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"


Return to “Manual Driving Tips”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests