Shift smoother...

[shiftsmoother]

I have been driving stick for a few years now current car is a 2008 6speed M3 and the previous car was a 2003 6speed M3. So i recently was concerned with my downshifting never really thought about it before, but i thought to myself its gotta be smoother then this....i was pushing the clutch in shifting to the lower gear then releasing the clutch which caused jerking and i looked online and found out that i was doing it wrong this whole time!!! i currently have 15,000 miles how bad do you think the damage could be to the clutch/tranny? i havent smelt any clutch either.....Anyway i read about rev matching have been practicing its fun when you get it perfect but it irritates me when i get it wrong and the car jerks any tips? Since I have been practicing rev matching for downshifting i have noticed my upshifts are shitty as well, there clunky and jerky i had no idea i was suppose to rev match also for upshifting because currently to smooth the shift out i was slipping the clutch unknowingly....when coming to a stop now i put her in neutral and just brake but before i was engine braking had no idea...

[jomotopia]

you haven't done any extreme damage to your clutch/tranny by not rev-matching downshifts. a little extra wear to the clutch, but nothing major. to get them smooth it just takes practice, so keep working on it.

rev matching upshifts is just a matter of waiting until the engine drops to the right level before letting the clutch out, but letting the clutch out a little slower to smooth it out is not really a big deal either.

engine braking doesn't really hurt anything either as long as you are not downshifting at high RPM without rev-matching and letting the clutch out to slow down, which we generally refer to as "clutch braking" rather than engine braking.

[shiftsmoother]

you haven't done any extreme damage to your clutch/tranny by not rev-matching downshifts. a little extra wear to the clutch, but nothing major. to get them smooth it just takes practice, so keep working on it.

rev matching upshifts is just a matter of waiting until the engine drops to the right level before letting the clutch out, but letting the clutch out a little slower to smooth it out is not really a big deal either.

engine braking doesn't really hurt anything either as long as you are not downshifting at high RPM without rev-matching and letting the clutch out to slow down, which we generally refer to as "clutch braking" rather than engine braking.

so i have been changing my upshifts too: push clutch in, shift up, release clutch let rpm drop alittle then add gas...is this correct? because it doesnt sound like what you mentioned above

[AHTOXA]

Shifting up is really a balance between clutch release and throttle engagement. Most drivers start getting on the throttle while the clutch isn't fully released. As long as the RPMs aren't spiking upwards when you do this, you're fine.

[theholycow]

Don't worry, you're doing fine.

You can't fix jerky shifts until you determine which direction the jerk is. Does your body get pushed into the back of the seat, or towards the steering wheel? Answer that question for upshifts AND downshifts.

[AHTOXA]

Tach can also answer that question. If when you engage the clutch the RPMs drop suddenly upon engagement, then you are giving too much gas or engaging the clutch too early. If the tach falls then rises upon engagement, then you need to shift faster.

[Reverence]

you haven't done any extreme damage to your clutch/tranny by not rev-matching downshifts. a little extra wear to the clutch, but nothing major. to get them smooth it just takes practice, so keep working on it.

rev matching upshifts is just a matter of waiting until the engine drops to the right level before letting the clutch out, but letting the clutch out a little slower to smooth it out is not really a big deal either.

engine braking doesn't really hurt anything either as long as you are not downshifting at high RPM without rev-matching and letting the clutch out to slow down, which we generally refer to as "clutch braking" rather than engine braking.

so i have been changing my upshifts too: push clutch in, shift up, release clutch let rpm drop alittle then add gas...is this correct? because it doesnt sound like what you mentioned above

He meant let rpms drop before releasing clutch as a means to rev match upshifts, like during 1st to 2nd shifts. After releasing clutch pedal, no need to let rpms drop any further before being back on the gas.

for 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th etc you don't really need to wait, complete the shift and release clutch pedal (unless you are reving high, in which case you need to slow your shifts a little.)

[shiftsmoother]

so do i need to rev match when upshifting? clutch in shift up clutch out no gas right away...is what i have been doing

is it ok if i just clutch in shift up clutch out gas quickly?

i think i just need to practice with the rev matching for downshifts with the car off, get my feet use to the rhythm and then go out and do it

[eggwich delfiero]

M3, bad@ass dude! I don't know my bimmers well enough to know if the models are different between 03 and 06, but curious, which do you like better?

I like engine braking. I can't see the harm in it. If I ever wear out a clutch, it's done out of love.

[shiftsmoother]

M3, bad@ass dude! I don't know my bimmers well enough to know if the models are different between 03 and 06, but curious, which do you like better?

I like engine braking. I can't see the harm in it. If I ever wear out a clutch, it's done out of love.

06 was the last E46 M3 new ones came in 08 E90...old one was way lighter compared to the new one but the new one has alot more power cant say it wasnt hard tradin her in when the time came

so i just wanna get this correct....engine braking would be clutch in shift down clutch out brake, right? no rev matchs...someone mentioned above it wont do much harm but is it best to just avoid this and use the brakes?

[eggwich delfiero]

Right, no rev match, as the goal is to slow the car down. Of course, I do it in small increments (I don't go from fourth to second and thus 1500 to 5000 RPMs) so it isn't all that rough on the car. I *believe* people are anti-engine braking because it is cheaper to replace brake pads than it is to replace a clutch. I say meh. Done reasonably I don't see too much wear being caused by engine braking. Plus, it uses less gas, and I am thrifty. Of course there is some wear in using your clutch, but hey there's wear in all driving, it's just a matter of what one deems to be "unnecessary" or excessive.

Someone feel free to be The Corrector.

Also, fwiw, I can upshift a little bit smoother if I double clutch, but I only do it when I am moseying around and being funny.

[Reverence]

so do i need to rev match when upshifting? clutch in shift up clutch out no gas right away...is what i have been doing

is it ok if i just clutch in shift up clutch out gas quickly?

rev matching just means being at the right rpms for a certain gear at a certain speed, when you release the clutch pedal.

For upshifts, you usually control this by timing:
A- Gas pedal out, clutch pedal in
B- upshift
C- clutch pedal out, gas pedal in

If you jerk forward as you let the clutch pedal out, you need to speed up steps B & C.
If you jerk backwards, you need to slow down B & C.
Usually you need to be slower on B & C for 1st to 2nd shifts and faster for other upshifts.

If your car has rev hang, it means the rpms do not start dropping as soon as you clutch pedal in, in which case you either wait longer before you clutch pedal out or you force the rpms down by slowing the clutch pedal release through friction point. You could also wait a bit after releasing the gas, before you clutch pedal in.

If your rpms drop faster than you complete the shift, you can give some gas to rev match at the same time as you release the clutch pedal through friction point.

for Downshifts, you rev match by the following methods:
Single clutch rev matched Downshift:
D- Gas pedal out, Clutch pedal in
E- upshift
F- blip the gas
G- Clutch pedal out, gas pedal in

Again, if you jerk forward, you didn't blip enough, backwards you blipped too much.

Double clutch rev matched Downshift
H- Clutch pedal in
I- shift to neutral
J- Clutch pedal out
K- Blip gas
L- Clutch pedal in
M- shipt to lower gear
N- Clutch pedal out
Steps L,M&N need to be carried out fast, else rpms will drop too fast causing you to fail your rev match.

Engine brake:
When you are in gear and release the gas pedal, your car will slow down. The lower the gear, the more pronounced the slowing down. This is Engine braking.
When you downshift, you will get extra engine brake since you are going to a lower gear, unless you are maintaining speed by being on the gas.

You can use Engine braking as you near corners preparing for a turn or U-turn. Ideally you would rev match your downshifts to the lower gear before benefiting from engine brake, but you could also just downshift and release the clutch slowly through friction point to avoid forward jerk if you don't rev match (this is how most Europeans do it= also called clutch braking).

At slow speeds, 20-30 Km/h, I would downshift the European way, at higher speed I would Dual clutch rev match, seldom Single clutch rev match

[Reverence]

Right, no rev match, as the goal is to slow the car down. Of course, I do it in small increments (I don't go from fourth to second and thus 1500 to 5000 RPMs) so it isn't all that rough on the car. I *believe* people are anti-engine braking because it is cheaper to replace brake pads than it is to replace a clutch. I say meh. Done reasonably I don't see too much wear being caused by engine braking. Plus, it uses less gas, and I am thrifty. Of course there is some wear in using your clutch, but hey there's wear in all driving, it's just a matter of what one deems to be "unnecessary" or excessive.

Someone feel free to be The Corrector.
.

He He He

I tried correcting my dad years ago to no avail. His argument: "I've never had to change the clutch before trading-in any cars I've owned!!"

He owned most of his cars 6-10 years, averaging all of them were past 150,000kms, so, he's got a valid argument and you do too!!!

[FDSpirit]

Shifting up is really a balance between clutch release and throttle engagement. Most drivers start getting on the throttle while the clutch isn't fully released. As long as the RPMs aren't spiking upwards when you do this, you're fine.

Yup. I go about the same process.

[theholycow]

so do i need to rev match when upshifting?

No. In some cars it's quite impractical to do so. In other cars it's practical, in which case it's optional.

is it ok if i just clutch in shift up clutch out gas quickly?

It's fine. The only problem is if it jerks the car and the jerking bothers you.

i think i just need to practice with the rev matching for downshifts with the car off, get my feet use to the rhythm and then go out and do it

You can't rev-match with the car off. It's only possible when the car is moving and the engine is running. Well, technically, it's always perfectly rev-matched while parked and turned off - everything is at zero RPM. I don't know if practicing like that will help; it's not so much about pedal sequences as it is about paying attention to the engine.

so i just wanna get this correct....engine braking would be clutch in shift down clutch out brake, right? no rev matchs...someone mentioned above it wont do much harm but is it best to just avoid this and use the brakes?

Engine braking is any time that you're in gear and your feet are off the gas and clutch pedals (unless you're idling along in gear at a few MPH). At that time, the engine is slowing the car down. It might not be slowing the car much, but it still qualifies as engine braking if it's slowing the car at all.

I *believe* people are anti-engine braking because it is cheaper to replace brake pads than it is to replace a clutch.

That would be what I call "clutch braking" (not to be confused with a clutch brake); that's when you begin engine braking with a non-rev-matched downshift.

rev matching just means being at the right rpms for a certain gear at a certain speed, when you release the clutch pedal.
{lots of good How To stuff}
At slow speeds, 20-30 Km/h, I would downshift the European way, at higher speed I would Dual clutch rev match, seldom Single clutch rev match

That post. The whole thing.

His argument: "I've never had to change the clutch before trading-in any cars I've owned!!"

He owned most of his cars 6-10 years, averaging all of them were past 150,000kms, so, he's got a valid argument and you do too!!!

It's tough to argue with that...except that I tend to put a lot more miles (or if you prefer, kilometers) on than that.