Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

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localdriver
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Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by localdriver »

Hello forum,

I am wondering how many of you guys can accelerate out of red lights faster than an automatic car? I learned how to drive on an auto and have been driving a manual for about a year now. It particularly bothers me that I just feel it is slow (compared to autos I used to drive) when starting at the traffic lights. The two advantages of manuals I heard most often was 1. it saves gas, which I agree; 2. it is faster than an auto, which I am not sure.

Here is what I mean. Suppose you are the first car stopping at a red, while you are waiting, the gear is in neutral. You don't pre-judge the lights, which means you start to act after you see the lights turn green. When you see a green, you clutch in, put gear in the first, and start to run. During the process of speeding up, you don't floor gas like crazy, let's say you switch gears with revving no higher than 3000-3500 rpm. Under these restrictions, how many of you guys can easily beat an auto?

I know this is probably unfair, but that's how you get out of lights with an auto - you don't need too much extra efforts. Perhaps I am still in a mindset of driving an automatic... I am just curious why everyone says a manual can accelerate faster than an auto, while I feel the opposite, at least for average drivers.

Thanks.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by Reverence »

There are many ways to beat an auto at launch, for same torque, weight & wheel diameter! :D

Lower torqued cars can also launch faster than higher torqued cars, if you know how to.

However there is a limit to that. If the auto has loads more torque, and is performance tuned, then it is not a manual vs auto comparison any more.

What car do you drive, torque? weight? wheels?

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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by the dumblonde »

I rarely get off the line faster than autos, but then again that’s by choice. I take my time, drop the brake take a last look for cross traffic then go. (Thus i feel particularly justified in honking at the car in front of me if they still haven’t started trying to move yet.) Quick, low rev starts just take practice and calm confidence. The times when i botch a launch when trying to go fast can almost always be attributed to over thinking. Prodigal Son had a great post on the whole not thinking so much thing. Trust your car and you’re legs will slowly learn that it takes less gas than you think to get going quick. Practicing no gas starts are really good for that. Just remember if you’re launching quick, just because the other direction says red doesn’t mean they’ll stop—particularly in the first few seconds after your light has turned green.

Also learning to get in the habit of reading light cycles and the likely habits of those around you help too. Being aware of what’s going on around you means fewer surprises thus keeping you calmer and more composed.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by Tups »

I can definitely accelerate faster than a less powerful car with an automatic gearbox, but I don't think I can upshift faster than a modern slushbox. Perhaps I could gain some advantage with better 1st gear ratio, but I don't think it would affect to the outcome. And in the end I don't really care, since most cars around me are standard and don't really care about their shifting.

I hate people who are in neutral when the light turns green. Because of them only a handful of cars get through the intersection before the light turns red again. Personally I prefer to stay on gear if I don't know how long it'll take for the light to change or at least shift to 1st when I get the slightest hint that my turn might be next.

Also, for me there has never been any "extra effort" in driving a car with a manual transmission. Perhaps it's something only drivers who migrate from the world of automatic gearboxes experience.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by FDSpirit »

There are some instances I'm off the line faster than some cars. At the end of the day, I could care less though. I'm not racing anybody. Most of those instances are when another driver isn't paying attention when the light turns green(Tups, you'd go insane over here :D ) . When I first started, I was really slow off the line and would have people riding my bumper. Now I can easily go with the flow of traffic.
I also see what you're getting at. I drove an automatic for about 4 years before I got my Civic and had the same train of thought. After a few days, I realized the point of me getting my car was to enjoy it and not be Paul Walker or Vin Diesel. You should probaly already be in 1st at most lights. I take the same route every day and know the lights very well, so I can go into N and 1st at the appropriate times.
Oh, and great post, TDB. :)
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by AHTOXA »

The notion of the manual faster than an auto is from the old days when the auto was a 3 speed and the manual was a five speed. More gears, better ratios and less loss. Now autos have 5 or even 6 speeds and the difference isn't much. This also applies to fuel economy as well.

Autos are much more efficient now than they used to be while the manual is left basically unchanged in its MO. Manuals are still about many othe things that auto cannot provide such as precise contol and simple enjoyment.

However, even if I don't watch the lights I can easily jump the line as fast as autos and someones faster given equal condition.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by Reverence »

if you're limiting shifting revs to 3000-3500, you've got to make sure your engine is outputting a high percentage of its max torque before that, else you've given yourself a decisive restriction.

Some engines only start having usable torque at 2800rpms. If that's your case, then you can't expect much in low rev acceleration with a manual. Autos with such an engine will get the revs up there fast if the driver is a little hard on the gas, hence accelerate faster.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by localdriver »

Reverence wrote:if you're limiting shifting revs to 3000-3500, you've got to make sure your engine is outputting a high percentage of its max torque before that, else you've given yourself a decisive restriction.

Some engines only start having usable torque at 2800rpms. If that's your case, then you can't expect much in low rev acceleration with a manual. Autos with such an engine will get the revs up there fast if the driver is a little hard on the gas, hence accelerate faster.

I am driving a honda civic. I think it's I4, 1.6L (or 1.8?). I understand it is a light car with a light engine, you don't expect it to outperform those V6 SUVs. But the problem is most of the time, I fell I was pushed by any car behind me. I drove an automatic Corolla before and I didn't it that way. It looks like I am just lame...
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by mad_finn »

localdriver wrote: I am driving a honda civic. I think it's I4, 1.6L (or 1.8?). I understand it is a light car with a light engine, you don't expect it to outperform those V6 SUVs. But the problem is most of the time, I fell I was pushed by any car behind me. I drove an automatic Corolla before and I didn't it that way. It looks like I am just lame...
Your broblem there is that it is honda.
Honda engines (all what I have driven) seem to have basicly low torgue, high power, and all of that power it up high (4Krpm+) so only way you can get at least soewhat fast in higer speed you need to use high revs to get you there.
If you would have a race and you use the high power (high revs) when you accelerate I bet you would leave 99% of those SUV's somewhere far behind

Honda engines love bit higer rev's (at least all what I have driven) so I'd say you shouldent be too afraid to use them :)

NOTE THIS
I don't say all honda engines are like that I haven't driven even on half of those, BUT all what I have driven have been either 1.6l or 2.0l that 2.0 seems to have at least some kind of torgue, but anyway it still was much better on bit higer rev's.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by localdriver »

Thanks for all the posts. Apparently you people here are skilled. I know the acceleration has to do with a specific car, but for following the traffic purpose (not feeling you are pushed by cars behind), I believe even a light car should do it without having to rev to redline. So I tend to blame it on a driver's skill or the way he switches gears.

One of my friends told me to speed up fast, you need to give a little more gas when launching from still, when the car starts to move, your left foot is still pushing the clutch. Immediately next, you clutch in and shift to 2nd gear. In other words, you don't actually fully drive in the 1st. I haven't tried this method, anybody know it is good or not?
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by Tups »

localdriver wrote:In other words, you don't actually fully drive in the 1st.
Learn to upshift faster instead of relying on tricks like that. Your acceleration is way better on first gear.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by localdriver »

mad_finn wrote:
localdriver wrote: I am driving a honda civic. I think it's I4, 1.6L (or 1.8?). I understand it is a light car with a light engine, you don't expect it to outperform those V6 SUVs. But the problem is most of the time, I fell I was pushed by any car behind me. I drove an automatic Corolla before and I didn't it that way. It looks like I am just lame...
Your broblem there is that it is honda.
Honda engines (all what I have driven) seem to have basicly low torgue, high power, and all of that power it up high (4Krpm+) so only way you can get at least soewhat fast in higer speed you need to use high revs to get you there.
If you would have a race and you use the high power (high revs) when you accelerate I bet you would leave 99% of those SUV's somewhere far behind

Honda engines love bit higer rev's (at least all what I have driven) so I'd say you shouldent be too afraid to use them :)

NOTE THIS
I don't say all honda engines are like that I haven't driven even on half of those, BUT all what I have driven have been either 1.6l or 2.0l that 2.0 seems to have at least some kind of torgue, but anyway it still was much better on bit higer rev's.

That's interesting to know. Maybe next time when I get a change to drive a more powerful manual, i will know what the problem really is..
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by VTECaddict »

Torque converters multiply torque. Clutches reduce torque.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by Tups »

In optimal case all cars would start moving at the same instant the light turns green. I aim for that, and in most cases I end up braking to stop again because around here drivers usually wait until there's at least three car length's between them and the car in front before even starting to think about looking for a gear. Or at least it feels like that. And they are not small European car lengths...

I also don't like people who think acceleration is something one can only perform when the car's not turning. In big intersections that's really annoying.
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Re: Launch from red lights as fast as possible?

Post by AHTOXA »

paul34 wrote:my dad is one of those people. He believes that if you are feeling any sort of g force in the corner, you are doing it wrong. Also, he does this thing of "manually" shifting the gears in his automatic by briefly lifting his foot on the throttle (those of you who have driven autos know what I'm talking about). I think he does this because he almost never goes over maybe like 2.5k, even when merging on the highway. To make it worse, he'll immediately change lanes out of the merge lane while he's still only at maybe 45 MPH if he's lucky. I'm luck WTF MAN GO THERE ARE PEOPLE COMING AT 70 MPH! :shock:

Well, that's in my head - I don't say it out loud.
Sounds entirely like my dad for the exception that my pops won't leave the right lane on the highway and won't drive over 50 or 55. Then again my dad's 72.
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